Martial Law: Could It Happen Here?

What is Martial Law?

In strict dictionary terms, martial law is the suspension of civil authority and the imposition of military authority. They act as the police, as the courts, as the legislature.

Martial law can be used by governments to enforce their rule over the public.

Martial law could potentially be implemented and enforced under any of the following example conditions:

– After a coup d’état.

– In a time of war (e.g. foreign invasion).

– When government is threatened by popular protest or political opposition.

– To stabilize insurrections or perceived insurrections.

– In a time triggered by an event or events when the civilian government or civilian authorities fail to function effectively and have broken down in maintaining order and security, or in providing essential services.

– When there are extensive riots.

– When disobedience of the law becomes widespread.

Note: Martial law should not be confused with military justice. In the United States, each branch of the military has its own judicial structures in place. Members of the service are under the control of military law. But this is the normal course of business in the military. Martial law is the exception to the rule.

Article 1, Section 9 of The Constitution states, “The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

Note: Habeas corpus is a concept of law, in which a person may not be held by the government without a valid reason for being held.

Note: A writ (a formal written order) of habeas corpus can be issued by a court upon a government agency (such as a police force or the military). Such a writ compels the agency to produce the individual to the court, and to convince the court that the person is being reasonably held.

The suspension of habeas corpus allows an agency to hold a person without a charge. Suspension of habeas corpus is often equated with martial law.

Who Can Declare Martial Law?

It is often argued that only Congress can declare martial law, because Congress alone is granted the power to suspend the writ. The President, however, is commander-in-chief of the military, and it has been argued that the President can take it upon himself to declare martial law.

So, what’s the answer? Who can declare or impose martial law?

The President (the military as commander-in-chief) or Congress.

What Happens Under Martial Law?

– U.S. Constitution would be suspended.
– Suspension of habeas corpus.
– Suspension of civil rights.
– Suspension of civil law.
– No freedom of the press.
– No freedom of assembly.
– No freedom of speech.
– Curfews enforced on the people.
– Troops in the streets for enforcement.
– Checkpoints would be set up for control.
– Ability to hold a person without charge.
– Potential arrest of anyone who is a ‘suspect’.
– Imprisonment without representation or due process.
– Potential house to house confiscation of firearms, ammunition, food supplies.
– Typically, martial law accompanies curfews.
– The application or extension of military law or military justice to civilians. Civilians defying martial law may be subjected to military tribunal (court-martial).

In United States law, martial law is limited by several court decisions that were handed down between the American Civil War and World War II. In 1878, Congress passed the Posse Comitatus Act, which forbids military involvement in domestic law enforcement without congressional approval.

Martial Law under the NDAA

However, there are provisions in the current NDAA…

Several American lawmakers have stated on the record that, in their opinion, Section 1031 of the National Defense Authorization Act legalizes or authorizes martial law in the United States.

Senator Mark Udall had stated “These provisions raise serious questions as to who we are as a society and what our Constitution seeks to protect…Section 1031 essentially repeals the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 by authorizing the U.S. military to perform law enforcement functions on American soil.”

In other words, the military could arrest any American citizen suspected of being a domestic terrorist and throw them into a military prison indefinitely under the NDAA.

The National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) is a sweeping defense policy bill which includes a number of troubling provisions.

It apparently permits the military to detain individuals indefinitely without trial.

Could Martial Law Happen Here?

Yes, it certainly could. It just needs a trigger event. Once that event or events occur, they could in theory round up just about anyone they wish. No probable-cause necessary.

Do you think they have lists of people ready for this?

Yes, I would think that they do.

More: What Would Happen If Martial Law Is Declared?

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Wow…. that’s some “stuff” to think about! It feels like we are heading for a triggering event to me. The ramping up of the rhetoric from the Left, the immigration issues along the southern border, and the upcoming mid-term elections seem like the perfect storm for upheaval. I highly doubt the Left will gain any control or power from the mid-terms, which could enrage their base causing more civil unrest than we’ve ever experienced. Add to that the “Russia Probe”, HRC’s constant complaining and the total fecklessness of Congress to pass a robust and comprehensive immigration bill, we could see cities burning for Thanksgiving. It is very sad what the Left is doing to America… and the blame rests squarely on that spineless POS we had in office before Trump.

Rob, what do you really think? Ha! very well stated. The left has a core of celebrities, politicians, wealthy patrons that are intentionally ginning up the base. (Maxine, Fonda, DeNiro, Samantha B….) They are doing everything to incite violence, but so far their efforts seem to be backfiring. These ‘cheerleaders’ by the way are well out of harm’s way with adequate armed guards and gated mansions. What they want is to incite riots and civil disturbance to extinguish Freedom of speech, Right to bear arms. The takeover is a done deal once they achieve that. The useful idiots are plentiful; David Hogg a prime example.

Old Chevy
David Hogg, you mean the HUGE anti-gun-activist teenager that now hides behind the Secret Service and Daddies FBI connections? That David Hogg?

The simple/correct/true answer…. Yes, of course it can and will be.

One only needs to remember the “Flavor of the Week” (Political Party) usually determines what direction the military/.gov is headed.
For example Trump verses Obama. Look at the differences in the way Trump reacts to World Politics compared to Obama.
Right, Wrong or Indifferent they both do things completely in opposition to the other.
Same with Domestic Affairs, the Liberal and Rep “sides” think exactly opposite. Question, which is more violent, which would declare Martial Law to “get their way”?
I do not want to turn this into a Political Rant, but let me ask, who is it you think is more likely to turn to obsolete Martial Law, than into Socialism/Communism just to suit their needs?

The big question is, how do you prepare for Martial Law, Can you/we? Honestly look at all the ones that have tried to oppose the .gov, how many have come out on top without someone getting shot and/or killed by some .gov agency? At the very least they have been destroyed financially in the Courts, now think on that when there are NO courts, just a Firing Squad, FEMA Camp, or Military Prison.

Can one Imagine ‘Maxine, Fonda, DeNiro, Samantha B’ (as old chevy said) with their finger on the Button of Martial Law?

Those idiots you named are just a small cross section of that side of the retention pond the cities are filled to the brim in most cases with much much worse, and apparently gov is too.
Grey/stay away from crowds
I look at the big island as a gauge of how well gov can control people, small area, only 2 ways in/out manned checkpoints with nat gaurd and popo and they have had 80+ people sited for entering a restricted area in less than 2 months, and thats just the ones they caught, the gov thinks they will control stuff, they are dreaming. Guys like me are just going to stay home, but the thousands who wont, should be fun to watch, or overwatch, hmm

I agree, stay home, Hunker Down, and turn in the radios and Ham-Set.
Have you watched the video of the latest Riots? the .gov just backs away and let em riot, Same with the Looters of places like Wally World, they just stand back and take notes, than write reports.
Ya gata remember, “When Seconds Count, the Police are only Minutes Away”. Average response time here in the 4 corners, 20 minutes. Average time to fire up the Backhoe 5 minutes. Just Saying.

Could the citizens bring criminal charges against the mayors/governors
of the cities/states that aloud this to happen.


I read a couple of things on-line about reporting unconstitutional acts to the DOJ. Not sure if it’s okay to post either the hot-line number, or the on-line process, so will let Ken tell me if that’s okay. In the meantime, do your own research, starting with the DOJ’s website.


Your article/thread starter on civil war II, either ironically or by design was the same subject of an article posted on (Russian news site) yesterday. It would be interesting to know if they read your post and the subsequent comments prior to formulating their version. I have no doubts they monitor sites such as yours to gauge everyday American’s sentiments. Amazing similarities in their post.

On whether Martial Law is a possibility, of course it is. The so-called “PTB” don’t draw up such plans and confer upon themselves the authority to implement those plans if they didn’t foresee that as an inevitable need to secure their positions.

The civil unrest we’ve discussed coming in the near future could very well bring localized Martial Law, i.e., large liberal/left wing run cities. I don’t see it happening out in the countryside, that is unless or until the chaos/violence in the larger cities spills out much further.

That doesn’t mean that folks that live some distance from the epicenters won’t have their own problems. I feel certain we will have to deal with increased opportunistic crime that will follow those fleeing for safer environs and those who see the “unprotected” folks in the countryside as soft targets. We will also have to deal with the disruptions in transport and distribution of supplies that will result.

Thus, we prep.

Unprotected folks in the countryside? The small town I live in is an armed camp. I know of no one in my area that isn’t well armed.

Same here in the upper midwest. What folks have around here would be characterized as an ‘arsenal’ by Hillary. Not uncommon at all to hear of thousands of rounds in a wide variety of calibers, dozens of firearms. I know of one family whose young girls have youth shotguns under their beds.

Right on there. There is a proclamation in our county that everyone should have a firearm in their house. Of course it isn’t enforced, but with 6 policeman for 9000 square miles, and they are concentrated in the southern part of our county, you need to be able to protect yourself. We have bear and mountain lion, and jaguars, bobcats and bad men.

texasprepper, Old Chevy,

If you didn’t notice, “unprotected” was in parenthesis, to indicate my sarcasm/derision at that assumption on their part. No doubt, in such a scenario, normal law enforcement would be stretched very thin, giving some to believe the countryside would be “unprotected”.

A hornet nest appears benign until you stir up the occupants.

I think we were just emphasizing.

They may have personal weapons but we need the weapons of “WAR”. I’m a U S government trained “KILLER” but I don’t intend to go to a GUN fight with a knife. I also am an “OATH TAKER and I will fight to the very end to keep my oath, if I only have a knife. I know a lot of people just like me that feel the same way.

A lot of us out here,,,
Thats the funny thing about getting older, you give less of a shid about your own safety

Dennis, could you email me a link via the Contact Us form? Would be curious to have a look.



ANYTHING is possible in this day and age, its a shame, just a damn shame,
My focus will be on enjoying to the extent i can this life in front of me.
I dont care about the left and their garbage, nor illegal immigrants, what exactly can I as an individual do? Not too damn much honestly,
Martial law here in the islands would be a death sentence for our economy and our government, they are 100% reliant on tourism,,, there will be far bigger concerns for these gov douchebags than one guy in flip flops, shorts and a straw hat,,,,
In fact, i would bet i wont even be on the radar, not only do they not have the personell, they lack the ability to control this many people spread out the way we are, let alone, whatever bullpucky is going on with yall over there on the continent,
They could pull compliance out of their azz if it was a war type scenario, but civil strife between factions within our society,,, no way

“not only do they not have the personell, they lack the ability to control this many people spread out the way we are,”
My thinking is much the same here in the 4-Corners, wayyyyyy to much dirt around.
‘They’ will have their hands full with cities of 2-3-10 million people ALL pissed off at them.

Boston bombing was a good example, they drew in personnel from about a dozen different areas to go door to door,
Now make that regional or even country wide,,, add to that the fact that its in many of these guys own AO, they will have quite a few no shows who disappeared with their hardware

Concur. I wondered how long it would take for someone to mention Boston. It was the event that fully opened my eyes, SWAT teams from all over New England, effectively kicking doors, the Fourth Amendment in tatters beneath their duty boots. I would say that was Martial Law, enforced by the Police, all kitted out in Tactical gear provided by the Feds. Probably the largest gathering of Bearcats in history.


‘SWAT teams from all over New England, effectively kicking doors, the Fourth Amendment in tatters beneath their duty boots.”

Do you have any specific examples? I’ve read many stories about the actions and aftermath stating that not a single complaint was filed by a homeowner for getting their door kicked in w/o a warrant and every occupied home searched was with the consent of the owner. Do you have credible information challenging those reports? I’ve read many statements similar to your’s around the internet, but never backed up with specifics, just general assumptions that these abuses took place, based on hearsay.

I’m not defending nor condemning the actions of police after the Marathon Bombings, but as I recall, the locals had nothing but praise for them.

Dennis from talking with some local SWAT team member that were there, MOST officers did well. Some they were not so praise filled for notably NJ and Bronx SWAT Teams.

The newspapers AKA the MEDIA did a good job showing the best side of the “Shelter in Place” event but folks who gave any resistance to a “Safety Check” were forced aside.

Remember these are armed men looking for someone who might KILL them. Not likely they would be humble meek little boy scouts in this house to house search.

Dennis, it was widely reported here in the local media, which by this time I am certain have been scrubbed of these references, that the searches were mandatory. Few doors may have been kicked, but when the gov says mandatory and there was a firefight in the streets of Watertown, the sheeple will be scared enough to comply. Still boils down to unconstitutional searches.


For the sake of the discussion, let me offer this. There is a difference between a “mandatory search” and an “unconstitutional search”. In order to explain, one needs to understand meaning of another legal and constitutional search, this a search under “extingent circumstances”.

The courts define a search under “extingent circumstances” as when swift action is required in order to prevent imminent danger to life, serious damage to property, or to forestall the imminent escape of a suspect, or destruction of evidence. When these conditions exist, the Supreme Court has ruled police do not have to obtain a warrant to conduct a search.

The term “mandatory search” to my knowledge, only means that someone, somewhere, for some reason, made a decision every home would be searched under the “extingent circumstances” exception to searches w/o a warrant, and has no legal definition when conducting searches of private homes.

Like many, I followed the events on cable news, from the initial reports of the attack until the final arrest, much like the events of 9/11. And as a career police officer, I followed up, absorbing all the information I could garner both praising law enforcement and reports critical of their actions, analyzing it based on my own knowledge of procedures.

What I found concerning the criticism of “unconstitutional searches” was that not a single complaint was lodged by any resident who’s home was entered, even after the ACLU set up shop and aggressively solicited the public to report any abuses. In fact, most homeowners, reported that while being shocked by the appearance of armed officers swarming their neighborhoods, they were treated respectfully, and in many cases, the officers took them at their word that the suspect was not in their home and left w/o searching.

The bottom line here is that a search is not “unconstitutional” if consent is given to search. The fact that a third party disagrees with the manner or the reasons precipitating a search has no bearing. Had a home been searched w/o permission of the occupant in charge of the premises occurred (say someone was arrested for a marijuana plant in his living room in plain sight) then we would have a court battle of whether the “mandatory searches” based on “extingent circumstances” were constitutional.

See, being a cop is simple.

4 days later you would testify these conditions existed;
An emergency situation requiring swift action to prevent imminent danger to life or serious damage to property, or to forestall the imminent escape of a suspect, or destruction of evidence. There is no ready litmus test for determining whether such circumstances exist, and in each case the extraordinary situation must be measured by the facts known by officials.
Those circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to believe that entry (or other relevant prompt action) was necessary to prevent physical harm to the officers or other persons, the destruction of relevant evidence, the escape of a suspect, or some other consequence improperly frustrating legitimate law enforcement efforts.

Please forgive the misspelling of “exigent” (not extingent) my spell check would not recognize the word. My memory was right, my computer must be illiterate.

also wouldn’t probable cause be needed to meet the constitutional test

Dennis sometimes I suspect that even the ACLU has a “Leash” on them. Much like the fact checker SNOPE’s is not as “free” as expected.

Things that truly endanger the Deep State have a “Leash” or get discredited/disappear. Look at Wikileak’s Assuage trapped and held with out communications in the Ecuadorian Consulate.


Good discussion. We could go on forever back and forth, but I’ll close with this.

In the early ’70’s, I was in the area where a business robbery/capital murder occurred. The first officer on the scene broadcast a good description of the suspect B/M20’s with a shotgun driving a distinctive car. I spotted the suspect from a distance about the same time he spotted my squad car. There was about two blocks separating us. He bailed out on foot and ran into a home. When I arrived in front, I immediately followed through the closed front door (exigent circumstances also applies to “hot pursuit”). Four occupants confronted me in the living room demanding I leave their home, denying anyone had run into their home. Seeing that none of them were the suspect I was searching for, I proceeded to search the other rooms of the home, locating him under a bed with the shotgun used to murder the business owner. We wrestled for control of his gun, I won. There was several baggies of marijuana in open view in the living room that the home’s occupants failed to hide in the melee. I confiscated the drugs and arrested the occupants as no one claimed ownership. The search stood up as constitutional and all involved were convicted.

Not the same circumstances as the Boston Bomber search, but same rules. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the house to house searches were not city-wide but concentrated where a sighting had been made, right?

I would not argue your hot pursuit to be wrong


Of course probable cause would have to be present at every level.
Probable cause for an arrest is nothing more than that a reasonable and prudent person would believe that a crime has been committed by that person. “Reasonable suspicion” is not enough to make an arrest, but is enough to initiate contact to further investigate that suspicion.

Same applies for searches. All warrants issued by a judge are “probable cause warrants” to obtain evidence connected to that crime or to effect an arrest. In the case I described where I entered a home w/o a warrant to arrest the murderer, it was a warrant-less search and arrest based on probable cause using information from a credible source (another officer) that a crime had occurred, my suspect matched precisely the description of the perpetrator of that crime, and the “exigent circumstances” precluded me obtaining a warrant from a judge prior to entering the home to try and prevent further deaths and/or injuries. The incidental drug arrests were legal due to the fact they were in plain sight and not to be ignored due to the legal nature of the warrant-less search for the murder suspect.

While not exactly the same circumstances, the same principles would apply.

Sorry, but I’m tired, I’m old and like my sleep. Anymore explanations will require that I start an on-line police academy and charge tuition. Just kidding, enjoyed the back and forth.

I have enjoyed it as well, please note, my issue is not with rank and file PD, but with the erosion of rights and protections. Granted, everyone wanted the bombers caught, but if they can do it for that, what says they wont be able to do it for something far less serious.

Agree NRP.

Anyone who still has more than 3 Brain cells left and still lives in a city gets everything they deserve after SHTF/Martial Law… Do not live in a city unless you are a CHUD

NRP & others
What makes you believe they will not use foreign troops on our soil to control the masses? Each of you who think outside the box, you forgot to factor in this conundrum which will be implemented because foreign troops will not fail to take down the simple A. m. er ican citizen without any hesitation an outcome.

Check out the cities around large military bases to see which troops are there for training by our military. Last time we were in Nevada passing though the Fallon area, it was Eastern Europeans it was either Croatia, Georgia, or possible Chek(?). Dh was listening to their discussion, for me I was watching all their nuonceses.

This is what most citizens are not aware of, there possible thousands of these people upon our soil at any given time. jmho

Antique Collector;

You most certainly could be correct about the Blue Hats (aka foreign troops)being added to the mix, But at that time I’m betting it would be all out War on the US Soil, keep in mind that the US population owns more than 46% of ALL firearms in the entire World (I’m better the GREATER percentage via the “Deplorable Riffraff ”). And close to 60% of the Ammo. Approximately 400 MILLION firearms total. Plus the Anti-Gun folks are 80% in the Cities, the places that would get hit first and hardest with a Civil War.

Second thing to consider; Who’s Side are the Blue Hats going to be on? Well the UN always sides with those that believe will win, Right or Wrong the Foreign Troops also are GREATLY outnumbered to the Local Yokels and marching up a Hill to Uncle Ben’s Homestead may not be the healthiest idea.
Unfortunately if and that’s a HUGE ‘IF’, a civil war does erupt, there will be NO winners.

For the Record MR. NSA*DHS, I do NOT advocate a War or Violence by any means, and I did lose all my firearms in Navajo Lake a year or so ago.

I have known some good men who chose to leave the Armed Forces of the United States who, when faced with the possibility of training said blue beret assholes did exactly that. They simply requested a transfer, or who changed their branch of service.

Think Bosnia. Horrible human tragedy. The only thing that saved some lives was the fact that the bad guys ran out of ammo and beer. It was shameful, as the US Army was told to stand down. The UN troops did absolutely nothing but hide.


And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not be a partner in her sins and receive her plagues;

Interesting election results in N.Y. where an avowed socialist (communist) won against a longtime Democrat.

Communists are now winning public office in the US. Didn’t we fight multiple wars against this nonsense??

Just remember people Hitler was Elected as well and look how that turned out!! Communism/Socialism/liberalism and similar mentalities should all be eliminated and outlawed since we KNOW what the end game of such mentalities is! Stalin? Hitler? Mao?

As for Martial Law It CAN and WILL happen here, Heck, It already did in Boston after the marathon bombings- The city was basically a shut down militarized zone!! Sure, They’ll give it a fancy name such as “shelter in place” under the guise of “Safety”- but we all know it is an order to stay inside your home- Same as Martial law, home confinement ETC

I don’t think on a national level martial law could ever happen IF we the people didn’t want it. Estimates have over 400 million firearms in citizens hands. We have this right to stand up against a tyrannical government and I believe that if push came to shove, the American patriot would push back with force. Remember it was only 3% of the population in the original 13 colonies that started the revolution that defeated the strongest military on earth in that time. It was that revolution that formed this great country. As Thomas Jefferson said, “From time to time the tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants”.

However today there is the issue of the all-knowing alphabet agencies that intercept every communication. Organization and coordination would be extremely difficult at best. The “high tech” (including ‘high tech’ weaponry) coupled with a seemingly unlimited budget would get in the way to a seemingly overwhelming extent.

Ken Jorgustin
Do you remember Viet Nam?

Point taken.

Low tech is the way to go. A single man with a rifle can have a devastating effect.

An example of the flip side of that coin can be Afganistan. The Russians and Americans have tried to conquer or strongly influence that country for decades. It is probably on of the most undeveloped backwards least technically advanced countries on the planet yet they seem to wear down their invaders to the point where they give up and leave.. Maybe their way of tribal uncentralized resistance is something the American patriot can learn from.


I understand the Brittish got very frustrated by another time of tribal uncentralized resistance.

Cops and soldiers blindly follow orders. They are not the good guys as everyday they enforce abusive politicians’ laws that go against the concept of freedom of ones own body and property (not wearing a seat belt, putting whatever in your own body (drugs or anything else),collecting rainwater on your own property, not paying taxes, etc. Cops and soldiers will not stand up for citizens.

Now because of the 2nd amendment if all of us oppose martial law it can be defeated. But that requires a couple million citizens and not just a few or hundred as different militias have tried unsuccessfully. Martial law would probably be localized to one area as opposed to all over the country. The above poster is correct that in big cities is where it will be most present. Get out of the big cities. The best thing we can do is everyday make conservatives aware of the danger of blindly supporting soldiers and cops. Conservatives say they don’t like big government and don’t trust government bureaucrats and politicians.. But guess who hire and manage cops: government bureaucrats and politicians. Guess what cops do: enforce big government at gun point. Just because we conservatives want security against rape, murder, theft, vandalism and battery, doesn’t mean we should support the militarization of cops and cops who enforce big soda bans, pulling people over by threat of force for not wearing a seat belt or going with the flow of traffic, throwing someone in a cage because they have made a personal choice to do whatever drug they want, arresting someone for feeding the homeless as a man was in florida, etc. Jury nullification is also a big avenue we can take to voting down bad laws in the jury box (don’t say directly just vote not guilty and guarantee that someone won’t be convicted. Make it harder for government to convict someone).

The only martial law that would be a good thing would be if Trump declares martial law on the southern border and sends in 20 divisions to stop the illegals even coming over the border. He has that authority and there is a real threat. We have rapists, murderers, thieves, vandals, abusers, sex traffickers and maybe isis coming over the border. That is unacceptable.

I think the blanket statement that LEO’s and Military will blindly follow orders is not 100% true. Many will abandon their duties to protect their own families. Many more are quietly members of Oathkeepers. They will obey the oath they took to defend and protect the constitution and NOT obey unlawful orders of their superiors.

I agree with you, III%er. There may be more Oathkeeper types than many realize. Let’s hope.

I know for a fact there are. Both in the local police and in the National Guard that will say yes sir, draw their equipment and promptly head off to oppose the order.

The ones i like are aviation,,,,

Agreed, III%er!

How can they be oath keepers when pretty much all cops pull people over by threat of force for not wearing a seat belt (something completely voluntary and consensual for ones own body). 90% of the laws they enforce violate the bill of rights and concept of personal freedom.

Things will change when they are busy trying to exercise their rights to protect themselves and their loved ones. we’re not talking traffic violations or other minor infractions, we’re talking WROL. When their lives and the lives of their loved ones are in danger do you really think they will enforce unlawful orders? Sure, some will but I’d bet the majority think of their families and abandon their posts to protect them, especially once there is a financial collapse and they no longer get paid.

John thompson:
In Virginia, there is a Seatbelt law.

I’ve never seen a policeman pull someone over for not wearing a seat belt, but we have the occasional road block here. The State Police are checking tags and drivers licenses…probably more going on too. So do I cause a ruckus because it is an invasion of my ‘right’ to drive (according to you), or do I comply because I hold a PERMIT to drive and obey the traffic laws? There’s a difference…

A police department does not symbolize ‘big government’ — they are a necessary service for a civilized society because there ARE people who are intent on criminal or aberrant behavior. Big government is having the inverted-pyramid organizational structure that is supported by taxation and is often times unnecessary, overly regulatory, and/or duplicitous.

Reading your words reminds me of the ‘debate’ I engaged in with one of my leftie sons last night in a 2-hour conversation. He was trying so very hard to trip me up about Trump, the 2nd A, gun control/loopholes, etc. But he had no concrete examples, only rhetoric. The problem is, he’s not well read about the current events (loves the Young Turks), but has snippets of this and that. He has no real knowledge of the ongoing SC investigation and didn’t know anything about the DOJ investigations. But he said Trump is going to be impeached. He has said this since before Mueller was appointed, though. He is reciting what he has heard… There’s no depth to his ‘debates’, only attempts to swipe here and there, then he’ll divert and try another angle. He does nothing more than get himself frustrated, but I know his style (chaotic and poorly informed) so while he is trying hard not to get pinned down, I am trying to offer explanations and facts that would settle his rhetorical accusations. The game will never change, though, because in his mind, he’s right because he has a sound ‘argument’ — and that’s the illogical methodology that the left adheres to. This is why conservatives can’t debate 99% of the lefties.

So before we go any further, let’s stop the rhetoric and look into what you allege: “..when pretty much all cops pull people over by threat of force for not wearing a seat belt ”

Give us some statistics so that we can actually examine the facts about all cops forcefully pulling people over for non-compliance w/ seatbelt violations.

I’d also like to examine your statement: “90% of the laws they enforce violate the bill of rights..” Name the unconstitutional laws that violate your Constitutional rights. Your percentage is exceptionally high, so if this is true, you should be able to come up with an enormous list of laws. Then we can discuss whether or not they actually violate your rights or not.


You make a valid point. Currently the public has to pay for medical care for people who make foolish decisions about their body because of forced taxation and forced medical coverage and sharing under Obamacare. That’s the problem, not people having freedom to do with ones body as one pleases. Who implements forced taxation by threat of force or at gun point: cops. Who enforces court orders regarding Obamacare coverage: cops. Stop blaming personal freedom for problems directly caused by government which includes cops, agents and inevitably soldiers who would back them up. That’s exactly the point of this article. Martial law and violation of personal freedoms and rights can happen because it already does happen to hundreds of thousands of people everyday.

John Thompson did I not ask you to move this to the off topic thread? I did look for you there just a moment ago so you would not be ignored there.

So I suppose you see no need to have police around? I mean if some misguided soul who chose to inject themselves with some street drug desired to assault you would you do with out police services?

So your world view is it’s my body, it’s my choice but given your insistence in enforcing your choice WHY you would choose to use those forced taxation/forced medical care services. Or do you choose to reject personal responsibility in paying for the results of your choices?

Please look at the bottom of this page, CHOOSE to click on the off topic link and we can chat about your “rights” to choice as you see fit.

John t,

Was going to ignore you, but like the pesky fly with the same repetitive theme, you keep coming back.

As a Constitutional Republic, our elected representatives create laws. After both houses of congress reach agreement, the President agrees of disagrees with those laws. If he/she agrees with the law he puts his signature to it or ignores it, in which place, it becomes the “constitutional” law of the land. It matters not, as far as the law is concerned, whether a majority of the people agree, that’s for elections to address. After this constitutional process creates that law, an oath taker is bound by that oath to enforce/uphold it.

Now the judges (judicial branch) comes into play. They arbitrate complaints lodged against the constitutionality of any law. The first
judicial decision applies to only the geographical jurisdiction of that judge, as does each appeal up to the Supreme Court. Until any challenge to any law reaches that court’s decision, that law is constitutional. Any Oath Keeper is bound to uphold that law until that law is rendered unconstitutional. Live with it or change the system.

Having said that, LEO’s are given discretion to act in ways that keep incidents from deteriorating into chaos or from causing more harm than good. When exercising that discretionary power, they have to do a balancing act because if their actions are challenged, their judgement is put on trial. It might come as a shock to you John t, that officers are frequently disciplined for poor judgement for enforcing “insignificant” laws and bringing ridicule to their agency.

As for seat belt enforcement, if that law is ever ruled unconstitutional following the process laid out under the constitution, you can be sure, LEO’s will stop writing citations for it. Why? Well, to do so would be violating their oath. I personally would keep wearing mine, because I’ve personally been saved by my seat belt and I’ve personally pulled hundreds of dead and badly mangled bodies from wrecks where those people would have walked away under their own power had they been wearing one. I’m guessing that’s why that law has never made it through to final adjudication on it’s constitutionality.

I won’t even breach the drug issue, other than to say that if the anarchy your beliefs seem to indicate ever comes about, this oath keeper would be the drug dealer/facilitator’s worst nightmare. I personally think their elimination should be called justifiable homicide, but that pesky constitution calls for due process for that human excrement.

The problem many conservatives have is they are tied down supporting a system that guarantees their own destruction. They talk about upholding other peoples laws, the constitution as interpreted by judges and a government of bureaucrats, all determined by majority rule. So if liberals are the majority and pass bad laws, appoint bad judges and hire bad bureaucrats, conservatives will spend their lives wholeheartedly defending the very system that makes them slaves and guarantees their demise. That’s what conservatives do when they support cops enforcing laws they don’t agree with. Just because a majority of people voted for certain politicians who then decide to pass a law doesn’t mean you should view it as legitimate, valid or stand by the people who decide to enforce it. It’s completely illogical. We are never going to win perpetuating a system created 200 years ago (changed and gutted every year by judges, politicians and subjective views of cops, prosecutors and the legal establishment) that relies on demographics that it did not anticipate.

As for what cops do today: they constantly violate they very rights of self determination for ones own body and property. Fundamental freedoms. They are busy pulling people over for not wearing seat belts by threat of force or arresting people for possessing “drugs”. If the conservative view is that government has the right to determine what people do and don’t do with their own bodies whether it is smoking, drinking alcohol, drinking drano, committing suicide assisted or otherwise, eating fatty food, taking, injecting or snorting pills, plants or powders, tanning, getting tattooes, selling their own bodies or not wearing seat belts, all voluntary and consensual things, then they are no different than liberals who belief thatmpeoplemshould be forced against their will to do or don’t do to or with their own bodies.

Yes vote for conservatives, hope for a new conservative Supreme Court justice, because in the two party system conservatives are slightly better than liberals, but not by very much.

Dennis and Modern Throwback you two are far more patient with John Thompson than I would be.

I owe you both a beer or three for your attempts to talk sense into John thompson. But there is a proverb about mud wrestling a pig, it wastes your time, you get dirty and the pig enjoys it.

In all my years of medical work I have never cut off a seatbelt from a dead person. I have however helped search roadsides for people thrown and mangled/killed because they did not wear seatbelts.

Don’t get me started on narcotics I look forward to when am open season is declared on drug dealers. I am past angry at how many young lives I have seen destroyed because of narcotics.

Praying for wisdom

NH Michael,

I’ve had many contacts with folks like John t. He is far from being alone in his beliefs. Whether he developed his beliefs alone, or after joining a group, only he knows. The thoughts he posts closely mirrors the beliefs espoused by the Anarchist Movement. This “Movement”, according to observers, either extreme left wing fringe loonies, or extreme right wing fringe loonies. You know the saying if you go far enough right you eventually meet yourself on the left?

Like I said earlier, I dealt with them as a LEO. They routinely forced encounters with LEO’s hoping to be cited so they could, plea their cases , always demanding a jury trial. They always represent themselves, loudly proclaiming the same things John t has as their defense. I never saw a jury be sympathetic to their cause.

Since retirement, I have not had direct contact with the type, but my rural county has been entertained by the antics and tenacity of one. He is a low level drug dealer/user who believes drivers licenses, vehicle registrations, seat belt violations, etc. are unconstitutional. He is a weekly fixture as a defendant in misdemeanor court. Recently he discovered that the state laws on motor vehicles were predicated on those vehicles having pneumatic tires. With this knowledge, he proceeded to fill his car’s tires with cement. He set out to be stopped by law enforcement. He succeeded in his mission. While the officer watched, he proceeded to cut the side walls on all his tires, proving they had no air in them. The judge dismissed the tickets based on his argument that the law does not apply to vehicles having non-pneumatic tires.

He loudly proclaimed his victory, finally sticking it to the “man”. Of course, everyone sees him as the “loony tune” driving the car with concrete tires, jarring the teeth of the driver as he navigates the roads. He has had two chargeable accidents since. Seems as if it is very difficult to stop a car with solid tires weighing in excess of an extra thousand pounds.


You just don’t get it. Just because seat belts, and not doing drugs and not eating fatty food and not drinking alcohol saves lives doesn’t mean the government (cops) should be using force against people to prevent and punish people for doing what they want to their own lives. It is not your life or the cop’s life or the government’s life to save. People ought to do with themselves as they please. You as well as many conservatives obviously don’t believe in freedom.

John Thompson your arguments while amusing have little to do with the subject of this thread.

So it’s your body is the magnum opus of your argument eh? So mine is Freedoms and Responsibility are irrevocably linked. So if you choose to not use seatbelts YOU should be Responsible for your medical and social costs of your decision. However as it stands your decision to go with out the seatbelt is paid directly (Uninsured person) or indirectly by shared risk costs of group insurance by other folks.

That seems unfair as how is it my choice to pay for your choice?

It was YOUR Choice and Your Body Right? How about we write the laws so you can do with out seatbelts by opt out just sign here for TOTAL ORGAN DONOR status. You get hurt in an accident with out a seatbelt, we pick you up scan your ID and send your injured body to the Organ Donor chop shop so others who really need a heart or eye transplant can get one? I’ve have worked in an organ procurement team you will not be wasted I promise.

Seems reasonable, you get the freedom to do with out the seatbelt and when you get hurt with out that seatbelt society will get good organs for needy folks instead of paying for your CHOICE.

Please move your no doubt lengthy reply to the Off Topics Link at the bottom of this page. See you there 🙂

My 2 ¢ worth than I’ll shut-up;

I know several LEOs in my area, and have discussed this exact thing with them (off the record of course) the ALL say the same thing.

“Sorry all, screw the Job, I’m taking care of my family first”

I usually go on to ask abut the Job Loyalty and all the rest of the BS, They just shake their heads and state “Why would I get killed for a bunch of idiots running around playing Rambo, Looting and Rioting? I can always go back to work if it settles down”.

Now I’m sure that’s not the case with all LEO but who in their right mind would take on a mob of thousands just to get killed trying to stop what’s going on at that minute?

I disagree, your making to many generalizations. Things are often grey, not black and white.

I do agree that there are too many laws restricting freedom. I mean if you want to die and get thrown out of your vehicle for not wearing a seat belt then go ahead.

I won’t write you a ticket.

“Stand your ground; don’t fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here.”
– Captain John Parker, command to Minutemen at Concord (19 April 1775)

Si vis pacem, para bellum. If you want peace, prepare for war.

SMG I was hoping you’d chime in 🙂 In the age of Honor and troops forming up in plain sight of each other to start a battle (Remember the RED Coats) waiting until being fired upon was normal expected behavior. Musket fire was not very effective past 70 yards and slow reload thus “Wait until you see the Whites of their eyes” and the use of Bayonet charges.

Today IF you form up your a juicy target for a Predator Drone and will become “Bug Splat” from the Hellfire missiles.

To be effective today you have to be Sheep inside the flock until you get a good chance to use your teeth effectively. Then you better be somewhere else pronto.

Think, plan and pray. The nail that protrudes will be Hammered.

NH Michael
Us on the right, must not fire the first shot. We have a moral obligation to try and resolve our differences with the left, without violence. But, we need to “Stand our Ground”, and show strength, not fall to their level of disgust.

This may change, but right now, today, I still believe “the pen is mightier than the sword. We need to organize, vote, and get others to vote,OUR WAY.

I don’t want to see Death and Destruction again. This war will Not be fought on some foreign soil, It will be fought right here in our back yards. Our children will not learn of this in history books, they will be in on the front lines,

SMG you and I agree however I feel that if EACH of Us reached out to potential open minded voters to vote for Sanity Vis a vis Antifa violence we can get a lot of quiet voters out to change the fall off the waterfall moment into a rammed up on the beach but alive moment.

We need to do this TODAY as a lot of folks I’ve talked to have not registered to vote in decades. All politics are local friends. Get folks to town hall meetings, firmly and politely get answers about the candidate’s goals and morals.

Do not get into pissing matches with Radical Leftists. You only waste your time at best and if you annoy them enough you maybe DOX’ed and have trouble to you and your family. The Leftists DO NOT FIGHT Fair.

Oh and PLEASE look decent while your talking people up as a “Kill Them All T-shirt” makes you look like a Radical Right person. Not useful. We want to come across as Good neighbors.

NH Michael

I’ve been doing just that, and for a long time. Now, I’m threaten with arrest for trespass and disturbing the Peace. For handing out pocket Constitutions at my local High School.
Reaching like minded voters is a lesson in patience. They are out there and I’m seeing them coming to contact me in a more private setting.


I know for a FACT, that there are literately millions or right thinking Oath-keepers, just standing in the shadows, waiting. These crazy liberals better hope they NEVER meet the REAL middle America.

The sum of my fears is Martial law , regardless of the trigger event. What is left of the constitution will be done away with and the ugly party will begin .
Get out of debt, stay gray, stay away from crowds, store supplies and perhaps invest in precious metals.

martial law?? I do believe that it is now called by a more friendly sounding “shelter in place”.

@aka, That’s a good observation. “Shelter in place” sounds a whole lot friendlier.

Sort of analogous to putting lipstick on a pig 😉 But it’s still a pig.

yup : )

I do believe that Maxine Waters ( S.O.W.), silly old woman ,wears lipstick and lipstick is not camo !

I think she should start a new movement. BLACK MIMES MATTER. Then shut up!😔

There have been a number of false flag events, plus some thwarted events, that have been pushed through by the Deep State since Trump has been President. It’s my belief that the military intel and the NSA have a good handle on the evil hub. If I am reading/researching correctly, it is just a matter of time before the evil button-pushers are either caught or deep-six’d, but the strategy has to be unfolded in a very organized manner.

If there is an us versus them, our numbers and our skills will put us in the winners’ circle. However, the attack style of these paid agitators and leftie nutjobs can be unpredictable, so it’s best that we all stay gray, stay away from crowds and cities, and avoid mass transportation.

Under Trump, I don’t fear Martial Law because his advisors know full-well the magnitude of such an action. I also believe the Trump administration has better control (nationally and globally) than what is being portrayed for public consumption.

The fiasco that the left threw at Trump last week with the faux-outrage over separating families has been handled with great finesse. Trump’s EO is worded in such a way that the ‘family unit’ will be detained and processed as a ‘unit’. When the ‘family unit’ is getting processed, they stay together. If/when there is a deportation, they ALL get the boot. And apparently Sessions is pushing for DNA testing to prove family relationships.

Here it comes, Justice Kennedy retiring!!

Old Chevy;
Yep, and the Libtards go even crazier.
Of course the word “Libtards” is used in a very affectionate way 🙂
Don’t want anyone to get offended of course.

“Soft” Martial Law is already in place and expanding under the false declaration that it is necessary to help “protect our citizenry (2015)”. The ongoing expansion of our federal government is alive and well and out of control. The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is preparing for the coming insurrection and in doing so has grown exponentially (2015). The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has extended its over-reach dramatically and is pretty much in everyone’s lives. The National Security Agency (NSA) and The Patriot Act have breached the US Constitution (Bush-2 Administration). The effectiveness of our congress and many of our states to stop them is not working. The slow progression of the police state and the gradual march to full and declared Martial Law is of grave concern to the American people and was demonstrated in the last election, November 2014. Our country has already experienced many forms of passive Martial Law and continues today. Examples: “No-knock” search warrants and forced entry, warrant-less searches of vehicles, homes, personal property and individuals (pat downs) without permission. The requirement to show your Identification (ID) is on the rise. The number of Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) team raids has soared from a few hundred annually in the 1970’s to more than 50,000 per year by 2005. To make matters worse, most of these raids are focused on non-violent crimes. At last count 80,000 raids were executed annually in the United States (, June 2014)—79% of which are raids on private homes. That is 219 raids on average per state every day in our country…24/7. A very bad indicator. There is a long list of abuses performed by our federal government and in many cases by a particular state and/or local authorities. Militarization of our national police forces, state and local government law enforcement agencies in some cases have escalated to the point of no return. Our country will never go back to the friendly neighborhood police officer concept of the past. This is an excellent example of “mission creep” that has taken place with the assistance of millions of dollars allocated to any and all enforcement agencies willing to except the cash; and why wouldn’t they, it’s free. A bad indication of the future times. There is a long list of governmental abuses throughout American history but here are a few noteworthy examples of an over-reaching government (Martial Law): 1. The Battle of Athens (sometimes called the McMinn County War) was a rebellion by citizens in Athens and Etowah, Tennessee, against the local government in August 1946—violations of voting rights by the use of voter intimidation and acts of violence. 2. Randy Weaver (Ruby Ridge Standoff) and the killing of his pregnant wife and son by federal marshals. Weaver’s family was awarded $3.1 million as a result. 3. The Waco Texas siege. This was a siege of a compound belonging to the religious group Branch Davidians by American federal (FBI, ATF) and Texas state law enforcement and military personnel. The siege resulted… Read more »

Your list of 5 is sad,scary and revealing of the govmint agencys that we support with our tax $$$$ .

I guess anything is possible. I think there are individuals and groups out there that would support using Martial Law to further their agenda.

Right now, the military does not have enough forces to establish a nationwide Martial Law. Well unless they use widespread lethal force, which at that point it would be a Civil War not a Martial Law scenario. I am sure they would just poison the water before that.

Unless a major event happened, which changed the size of the Military greatly, I just don’t see widespread Martial Law as a threat.

Commenters go on and on in other articles about how the left wants to overthrow the Constitution but the real threat seems to be coming from Conservatives in the government through actions like the NDAA and the Patriot Act. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is the future America, go ahead and weep. I am a working class white man and I have to tell you, rich pigs like Trump, Pelosi, the Bush-Clinton family and the Obama’s are the working person’s worst enemy. The road is bumpy but each new generation in America is more Progressive than the one before it. Hope I live long to see a country in which the wealthy have their fun but the sick and poor are cared for and the forever war is called off.


I agree just a little. These socialist political activist, can and are doing something we on the right are not. They are getting ALL their friends and other weirdos to VOTE.!! By shear numbers they can out vote us. We The People need to get out there and start pounding the street for the right candidates. Or, We are going to end up with these dumb-asses in the legislature.

@ John Thompson: “Just because a majority of people voted for certain politicians who then decide to pass a law doesn’t mean you should view it as legitimate, valid or stand by the people who decide to enforce it.”
Actually, that is exactly what is means.

Its 2:54pm on a bright sunny day, my scaffold is up all around the house so i can replace my fascia abd gutters and strip the old roof off and a pile of materials waiting to be used,
the pond is crystal clear, cooler full of ice cold drinks. Think ill concentrate on that stuff as opposed to arguing over a theoretical possibility,

SEE.!!! I was right. You would make a GOOD role model.!!!!

That a boy Tommyboy. You’ve got your priorities straight. Discussions like this tend to further entrench folks in their beliefs, but at the same time it reveals a lot about people’s thinking process. It can be illuminating.

Good luck with your project. Be safe friend.

Thanks D,
Home maintenance, sometimes its more than just paint!
Actually have to completely sand the exterior of the house after i get the roof repais and replacement done, good fun! Looks like a big jewelry box when its got a new finish on it. Western red cedar and douglas fir with a natural cedar Cetol finish,

Tommyboy are you installing a rain collection system or replacing one or is that even legal in your liberal minded state?

Any plan on a root cellar we were discussing during the North Korea nuking Hawaii discussion?

Wish I could go all year round in cargo shorts. I’ll be thinking of you when I am shoveling snow in a few months. 🙂

Oh its legal to collect water, big parts of island only have collection for their supplies. We are installing new gutters, old ones will go on the shop, could collect it if i need to, just 2 pieces of 4″ drain line and the water goes into the pond, part of the reason for changing to standing seam was so i can collect the water for use in the house, the comp roof is ok for irrigation water for garden but nasty tasting even after filtering.
Root cellar is on hold, would only be marginally useful,

Could marshal law happen here? Yes it could and this is why.

They do not have to blanket the nation with compliant police, soldiers, guard, … they just have to take one county after another in a progression. Overwhelming force directed at a limited sector of the country. Then they enlist the help for traitors to keep the population under their thumb/guns. The “vichy state” in France during the second world war is a perfect example of this kind of capitulation to aggressors.

It would even be easier to take over the country if international forces helped the corrupt government.

The big question is, when and where do we draw the line against socialism/communism?

hermit us

If they try taking “1” county at a time, when they get out away from the unarmed town folks, they are gonna need SEMI-LOADS of body bags. And not just for us “Resistance folks”!!!

Hermit us ,
The line in the sand is not a straight fixed line , it appears to be a line that is moving very slowly in the favor of the left thinking communists that are the more energized and organized at this time . Apathy is letting that happen to us . I don’t think us like thinking folks amount to a large enough % of the population to make a big difference right now . Time will tell, I hope I am wrong .
International forces in our country ………. well , blue helmets make good targets.

So in reading Kens post, the Left/ Right could cause some kind of large scale incident, then declare Martial Law, and use that for confiscation of firearms/ gold/ money/ bank account/ etc. What really stops this from happening? The President could easily call this into action, but Congress to agree… good luck.

Wow, such a diverse group of knowledgeable folks and wide range of opinions, input etc.

So glad I stumbled across this site a few years back

It’s like sitting around at the end of each day and having a serious conversations with friends.

Thanks to each of you for taking the time out of your schedule each day to contribute.

And thanks to you Ken for keeping the site alive..

@Max & Agent 99, Yes we do often get some good discussion with interesting opinions. And you bring up a good point to thank those who have put in the time to put it in words. Everyone’s time is valuable, and to put it here is appreciated.

Martial law: It is possible and the times I saw it rolled out was a laughable clusterf#ck when the 2nd Rodney King riot took place in South Central L.A.

The National guard troops were sent out to the street corners with gas masks, helmets, bayonets and not a single round of ammunition for their weapons for the first 24 hrs.

The Guard troops were pounding on our black and whites begging for ammunition yet we were not ammo compatible. (recently issued the 40 S&W with HP ammo while the guard was NOT issued 9 mm FMJ). 5.56 ammo for the Guard troops? Not a single round could be located. Some one in their Quartermaster battalion screwed the pooch that day.

When you witness crap like that happen, it does not inspire confidence in your commanders or the politicians. When you are taking cover when being fired upon, it does nothing for my compassion for my fellow man. When I returned fire, I was not shooting at women, children or “citizens simply expressing themselves”. I was returning fire at lines shadows and muzzle flashes.

My heroes and mentors are now dead and gone. I am the old guy at work that youngsters ask me to tell them stories. Martial law? I hope not. I just want to play with my dog, spin my fat cats and be left alone in my house in the ‘burbs.

Post Script: It is a laughable cluster#ck in the aftermath because I came through the experience with no injuries and all my fingers and toes intact. It was not so laughable driving toward the glowing horizon smelling the smoke and listening to the radio traffic go ape-sh!t as we approach the business district.

Most married officers were trying to call home at every chance they could as the use of cell phones was not as common back then. Most of the cops with spouses and children would rather have been at home behind locked doors with their children on the floor playing and a shotgun and other weapons at the ready in a nearby closet.

Since those days, after I turned in my badge and issue duty weapon, I trained for a new job, show up for work and watch the event unfold on television. If the unrest looks local, I burn meat at home. I still have an “end table at home” that is solid and heavy with shot shells. In the ensuing years with Y2K, 9/1/2001, I have not had to fire upon another human being. Not in my job description anymore and you would have to be threatening me in my house. ( nobody I know is dumb enough to do that.). for me to unload upon you.

I am not looking forward to Martial Law and I avoided that by relocating out of the larger cities.

Is martial law even necessary? The house-to-house search for the Boston bombers came up empty, it was the infra-red scope on a chopper that found them. Perhaps it was all practice to see what they could get away with. The people were in the streets cheering the police as they drove by, and I at the time also.

Honestly probably not. The majority would comply without any real complaints. Fearful people will sacrifice a lot to be safe. We have seen how the Patriot Act, no fly lists, and TSA have changed since 9/11. This is why our rights are always a day or two away from vanishing.

Can you imagine what would happen to our Second Amendment rights if an actual school attack occurred? Carried out by people who came prepared and were tactically trained. We have truly been blessed so far, it’s only a matter of time.

Not trying to be picky Old Chevy but the first brother died in that car chase/bomb throwing exercise from the reports I read. My NH SWAT Team friends told me that the home owner found the wounded 2nd terrorist in his backyard boat and the homeowner called it in. Yes I heard they used an IR scope from a chopper mainly to “See” if the terrorist was moving as the SWAT team moved in but really friend in a city of Boston how do you determine a terrorist from a homeless person?

Please do not buy into the “All Seeing” lie of They seem unable to spot and stop a lot of situations even with NSA Meta-data. Most of their successes seem to be from informants and plants THEY put there to provoke an incident.