Rural vs City Election Results Highlight Stark Ideology Differences

Although I have known this for a long, long time, while watching analysis of the 2016 election results as they came in – they highlighted the great divide and stark differences in ideology between those who live in population-dense regions versus those rural.

I read this morning that “Geographically speaking, Trump won at least 80% of the Nation”. When looking at a recent ‘red-blue’ election results map of all U.S. counties, it is amazingly clear how the vast geographical landscape is ‘red’, while pockets of ‘blue’ (the cities) are spattered about – with some ‘regions’ of blue in swaths of high population-density.

It is highly evident the sheer differences in political ideologies between these geographical areas. Mostly, the cities and city regions vote ‘left’ while most all others vote ‘right’.

As I watched the statistical commentary while election results came in during the night of NOV-8, it was a remarkable ‘visual’ to observe a given state colored mostly all ‘red’ while it came down to one small ‘blue’ county to determine the overall results for that state. It points out the great geographical divide…

 
For so many states, their political direction is determined by a very small population-dense geographical region, which is most always ‘left-leaning’. Often, and mostly, this direction is in conflict with the lifestyle of those who live more rural. These differences can be very stark.

In the case of the 2016 general election, it appears that more of the rural folks came out to vote this time – energized by Trump. And now the city folks are quite pi$$ed off (the televised protests around various cities and colleges)…while it seems that this time they’re getting a dose of what has often been the other way around…

To an extent, the population make-up of many or most ‘cities’ are younger people – many of whom are going to college there, and many of whom have found higher paying jobs there – even though it costs LOTS more to live there. Many move to various populations-dense suburbia’s, raise families there, work there – or in the city – and live their lives there. Suburbia has been ever expanding as population continues to grow, while ‘life’ is different there.

When people live very close to each other and when people are essentially ‘shoulder-to-shoulder’ while out and about, interacting, or at work, or even ‘at play’, apparently life’s ideologies are affected, and different (to an extent) from those who live further apart from each other.

As city regions have grown and expanded, and as more ‘young’ people have left the countryside to live there, it has led to an increasing political divide in this country – especially as many colleges and universities themselves have indoctrinated our young into left-leaning ideologies (a well-known general fact).

Additionally, our ‘young’ (who are now approaching and entering ‘middle aged’) have been coddled much more so than ever before. Generally, many are ill equipped to deal with failure and conflict compared with others who have grown a ‘thicker skin’ – perhaps having been brought up a bit differently or via having attended the ‘School of Hard Knocks’ (e.g. ‘real life’).

 
Rural vs The City
I suppose that it comes down to lifestyle differences, the associated value systems that go with them, the differences in up-bringing, differences in schooling, differences in mass media marketing influences, differences in perceptions of ‘quality of life’, differences in the definition of ‘success’, differences in life’s stresses, …

I suppose that these differences lead to ideological differences which translate to political differences which translate to elections. The outcome of one mass group affects the other, and there will always be this general but great divide.

While I know that I am speaking generally and am using a broad brush in this painted picture, the fact is that it’s generally true. And while I don’t have the solution how to resolve these geographical political / electoral differences (I do have some ideas though 😉 ), this thought process has led me to think about ‘what if’ SHTF or ‘collapse’ scenarios – and how it would unfold in the cities vs rural…if it were to happen.

Life in the city literally depends upon a MASSIVE working infrastructure. EVERYTHING is brought in from the outside. The flow must not be disrupted. While much of this is true too for those who live rural (food trucked in to grocery stores, electricity requirements, fuel delivery), the reality is that life in the city will be IMPOSSIBLE without it while the lifestyle of those who live rural is in many ways more conducive for survival through major disruption than those who only know ‘the city’ and its ‘life’.

In short, these ‘blue’ colored regions would be ‘toast’. Burnt toast.

The End.

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141 Comments

  1. “When we get piled upon one another in cities, as in Europe, we shall be come as corrupt as Europe”

    T. Jefferson

  2. And in Kalifornia the death by a thousand cuts continues. It will be a slow transition but in the not to distant future I’ll be a criminal if I bring a bullet in from out of state.

      1. They will most likely want federal funding for that since if I remember right, last time I checked they were still running huge budget deficits in their oh so illustrious government.

      2. Nailbanger, Yeah, will be like Venezuela in no time flat!
        My husband made me laugh the other day when he said, “Let California seceed, we’ll just need a bigger wall and California can pay for it”. LOL!

    1. me

      That is why we are spending our fiat currency now for those items which they have deemed evil & have “outlawed”.

      Yesterday my niece & I had a discussion on all the provisions that remove more our liberties from us. She voted against the requirement permit to purchase ammo, but as you stated it passed.

      She said OK, if I have to have a back ground check to purchase ‘so be it’, that is when I explained the finer points of the law. The yearly cost of $50.00 which we all know will go up. Then I asked her, why are we the “LAW” abiding citizens being punished when criminals who do not give a rats arse are not punished? They will continue to steal, thieve, lie, cheat to have their illegal guns and AMMO. While we are expected to bow down kiss the arse of the idiots who think they just saved themselves from harm.

      City and country will never blend, we are oil and water.(rant over)

      1. Very well said. Living on the border I have friends in Oregon and do most of my shooting there. No problem storing any extra stuff there. I already keep my larger capacity magazines there as I am a law abiding citizen. The only reason I’m still here is I get a very nice property tax break as a disabled veteran. But yes, the feel good laws will not help in the slightest and will only make a new market for criminals, “Hey buddy, wanna by a box of 9mm? Only $50 for 20.”

        1. me

          Will send you a note on the Saturday posting to pop on this site, so we stay on topic.

      2. They can also track who has what kind of guns now as well with this ammo law. In my county (Sacramento) when you buy ammo you must show a driver’s license AND they take your thumb print every time you buy ammo. If you are buying a bunch if .45 ammo, should the time come when they want to confiscate all guns, they can look at the ammo log and know you gave a .45 pistol.

        1. But I can go 7 miles away to Elk Grove and buy and not gave the thumb print or DL requirement.

        2. Where I live you need a firearms license to own a gun and we have restrictions on what firearms you can and can’t own. You have to show your license whenever you purchase a new firearm or by ammo. Guess what….nobody cares!

    2. me,

      Surely that Proposition will go to the Supreme Court. I can’t see that not being contested.

      1. Maggie

        There was a petition signed by quite a few challenging these laws, but we all know it will take time because of the liberal courts especially the 9th circuit.

    3. Here in CA they just passed an 8 million education bond. The local school district also got a bond passed for 400 million. They are no where near paying off the last one. They also raised to local sales tax again.
      Read somewhere last year in our local newspaper that CA owes 100 billion in various bonds, not including interest. That has nothing to do with the regular state budget liabilties.

  3. I believe that many people just like the freedom of open spaces and elbow room. Some, like many in here, like the advantages of self-sufficiency. Some, like our TP king, just like to be hermits (ha ha).

    Unfortunately it is a hard transition to a rural setting and the available lands are becoming scarce. For those that like high density, high priced coffee, high attitudes, and more immigration, there is always Kaliforia – soon to be a new socialist country. Be safe all.

    1. Caly has secessionist meetings in DC this week–can we help in any way to get that money -losing state to secede faster???

    2. @ homebody

      TP-King??? HAHAHAHA I like it, LOL

      And it’s not the idea of being a Hermit, it’s the living free and living the “lifestyle”, and if that takes being “away” or living as a hermit, than I’m ok with that. But guess what, I can still see the Sunrise AND the Sunset, drink from the local Lake and Stream, feed and harvest the wildlife, and still walk 5 minutes to the River and land an 18” Rainbow….. Plus see the Stars overhead on a cloudless night sitting on my deck; ya can’t say that In LA or Chicago I bet.

      I do want to correct you on this though *** “Unfortunately it is a hard transition to a rural setting and the available lands are becoming scarce” *** no it is not a hard transition at all, Yes I did it 35 years ago and it was difficult at first of course and yes it takes hard work, BUT one has only to make up your mind, set a goal, make a plan and as Niki would say, “Just Do It”. Money has nothing to do with living the “Lifestyle”. For I believe it’s “money” that keeps so many from becoming free form what in their heart they really want.

      I have worked my ass off, and yes have lost a lot I truly loved in this life, but guess what, I would NEVER trade a single moment of the decisions I have made. AND I will never go back to California (metaphor) EVER!!! I really believe for those that have made it to this rural lifestyle, we really understand something that “city” and suburban folks will never know.

      Just some food for thought, homegrown/raised food BTW 🙂
      NRP

      PS; Those that say “I can’t”, never will.

      1. I take my hat off to the King. I applaud the effort and sacrifices you and all those like us that have made the transition. Your encouragement to the ones living in that downtown apartment, that have difficulty seeing the path, is providing some hope.

      2. NRP:

        You’re right – it doesn’t take money to make the move.
        It just takes intestinal fortitude to do it.
        I made the move of over 1500 miles without a new job waiting for me.
        I just had the WILL to do it.
        I found work, rented an apartment, saved up, bought property, built my house.
        The end justifies the means.

    3. re: current king of TP

      Next goal is Emperor of TP Land, final goal is Master of the TP Universe….

      1. Grey Lensman
        You will have to create a throne of TP, just make sure it is the correct vintage.lol

        1. antique collector – too funny! Now you caused all kinds of “throne” designs to roll around in my head. I suggest a design contest, votes, winner gets (of course) a pack of NRP approved TP.

          1. My entry is the only one grand enough for the King – the TAJ MAHAL

  4. As you said, Ken, “Everything is brought in from the outside.”
    So, it stands to reason, that when everything is no longer brought in from the “outside”, those that are “inside” will be forced to go “outside” to get everything.
    They will have no other alternative for their survival.

  5. born in the country and living in a blue state and city and hating it if we had the money i would leave for texas TOMORROW

    1. Kevin,,the way that YOU wander is the way that YOU chose, THE DAY THAT YOU WAIT IS THE DAY THAT YOU LOSE.

  6. We are living in a SPOILED-ROTTEN culture. It’s all about me and the here and right now, with no concern about others or what will happen tomorrow.

  7. Ahh, timing.
    I just checked Politico’s map and for my state, Kentucky, only two counties of 120 are blue.
    Think about that.
    Trump won my county by 5000 votes with 10,000 households.

    1. Obummer still has a few months to take care of that inequality by moving in 10,000 un-accompanied illegal minors ( all probably 22 years of age ). Can’t have that obvious racism continue! Do I still sound angry – damn right.

    2. Love that Kentucky. For many years I have had a craving to move there from the state next door: The left one. Actually even Illinois is mostly red except for that blue hell hole area at the north end of the state that ruins things for everyone. Everywhere I went there were Trump signs, small, medium and yuuuge, but only one Hillary sign was spotted in a college area.

    3. Jay Jay, had to check the Tennessee map, OMG, Davidson Co. (Nashville) went blue! Boy that really tells me something about the immigrants that have moved in. I would have expected Memphis to be blue, and there was another county close to Memphis called Haywood Co. So we had three blue. We are not too far from Kentucky here.

  8. Inner cities are where the minority members of out society live. They vote mostly Dem.

    It is hard to be self-sufficient in a tiny apartment in the city with no place to grow vegetables or raise chickens. Rural people are generally more self-sufficient. Self-sufficient people don’t rely as much on government to provide services. People who want small government vote mostly Rep.

    1. @ DaisyK I remember growing up in Massachusetts in the 70’s a group of Puerto Rican families moved into Clinton Ma.(Gov. housing)and they ripped the doors off of the kitchen cabinets, made door frames, put chicken wire on them then, attached them to the cabinets then, put chickens in the cabinets. The only way anybody found out about it was when they lit some charcoal in the fiberglass bath tub so they could cook a chicken and the fire dept. came, put the fire out, thru the chicken out the window in the process and a riot started because the firemen just thru their dinner out the window.

      Who says you can’t live the Prepper life style in the city?

  9. *i beg your pardon on my spelling as I wrote so much I can barely see it on my phone and didn’t proof read*

    This topic is one that kinda gets my heart racing because it has caused friction in my marriage in the past. I’m a “city girl” who married a “country boy”. The in laws–though so loving now…were quick to insult non country folk and it really hurt my feelings becaus it made me feel like an outsider. I was a democrat until 2008 when I spent a lot of time with my sister-newly republican and her husband a lifelong republican from Texas. All it took was for them to logically give me the information no one ever had about liberal Vs conservative policies and I quickly began to see the light..so quickly that I even did door to door pvolunteers for the right while I was registered left -right up until the election.

    I have to say though that it as not a rural vs urban physical location change which brought me over it was being presented with information which made sense. I do not feel that in school and maybe even out of school was a given a fair shot for both arguments. I just remember in high school reading in the books…this presidency was good…these policies are bad, ect. And out of the class room being told republicans are selfish and like war while democrats are charitable and againts violence (ha!).

    So I think the rural folk get a naturally better taste of self sufficieny but they do not always know how to express why their ideas work while more urban areas are open to hearing new ideas which unfortunately are often filled with opinions and not facts and false ideas. I was glad when I finally received my bachelors degree but there were absolutely some left wing propaganda classes that I had to take..and had I not been introduced to the other side by my bro in law. I probably wouldn’t even have known it because of my faith in the system (at that time).

    1. Gotta add to..in laws do see some good other places now not just in their little town. They love to be tourist…one has to admit that while a city is not the best place for suffceincy or unbiased learning it is a good place for people to meet and share ideas…we would not be having this conversation if it we not for bright brains in Silicon Valley.

      I on the other hand see how living more rural and self sufficient and further from the chaos is good thing. We move a lot and in a couple years will choose where we will settle down. It will proabbaly be in small town America which used to be an upsetting thought to me. Now I look forward to it as long as I can keep my kids minds open and not fearful of the unknown.

      1. Fear of the unknown is the big one–on both sides. People don’t do their research because they’re told it’s not necessary. “We’ll tell you the truth. Trust us.”

        I have a liberal friend who sometimes makes me think, but unfortunately not the other way around. If a topic comes up that she’s uncomfortable with, she automatically shuts down. If I (HORRORS!) present information she can’t refute, she shuts the conversation down. If I happen to make a point that doesn’t jive with her worldview, she starts talking about how important it is to make her children into good liberals, which is just another way of shutting down.

        1. What I have noticed is than an individual with liberal views has a hard time almost always defending their view without name name calling. The name calling seems to be the bulk of the rebuttal as well. Any argument that “wins” solely by calling the other person names rather than maturely presenting the argument can not be a very strong position.

      2. Sorry…just wanna clarify…thought of moving more rural was upsetting because of the exclusive social behavior I had experienced.. Not because of the location itself. I always thought the idea of more nature and animals was great…I just was surprised by the reception of the people.

        1. Sorry to be so redundant….I want to make it clear. I think those from the country are great, very capable, grounded, value based individual, and i especially on this site appreciate all you/they have to offer as far as knowledge and wisdom.

          1. Country folks are a little leery of city folks only for one simple reason. We enjoy our country life and are worried that if too many city folks move out to the country they will bring with them the big city ideas that they were trying to escape in the first place. The first city guy will want an HOA to make un-needed rules. The next will want the big box stores or a shopping mall. Pretty soon our country life is slowly eroded as city transplants each bring that one thing that each individual wants. Once enough of the city folks bring that one thing that each individual wants, our country life has become city life. It is not the individual from the cities we fear, it is the change that the individuals as a collective bring.

  10. This why Kilary won the popular vote folks! Most of the sheeple and knuckle heads are grouped together in the cities feeding off one another. Yes, those prepared will be locked down within the cities dependent on the Govt, which is exactly what the Govt wants. But what they dont realize is that their assistance is the removal of most of their freedoms. Most of us already know this. but for any new comers, please have a plan to get out of the cities if you can once things go south.

    Now I’m waiting to see what Obumer and his Grandpaw Soros have planned for us in the coming weeks and how they plan to roll it out so it appears not to be their plan!!

  11. Good analysis Ken.

    People who live in cities tend to follow the crowd as not to be an outsider and be rebuked by them. They adopt the crowds views in which most people in the cities are followers based in socialism.

    When I was a teen and moved from the country outskirts to the inner city, I experienced the pressure being an outsider. Although these city people threatened and tried to harm me to conform to their socialist ways, I never gave in, which landed someone in the hospital emergency room. This city also still carried an ordinance that banned blacks after dark well into the 70’s and all my classmates ended up as liberals as a majority of the city is now. I left the city because I couldn’t stand it, it’s threats, hate and prejudices along with it.

    At the time I lived there as a teenager, I didn’t know the difference between liberal and conservative. I just knew good and bad and there was no guessing who the bad people were.

  12. Just an observation:

    Trump may have, geographically speaking, won 80% of the nation,
    whatever that means, but that’s why we have people, not land, vote.
    To date, Clinton is leading in the popular vote and if that holds
    till the end of counting, the majority of people will have voted
    for her yet ended up with Trump. Democracy in action? A result
    of the electoral college which has served us for 240 years and
    I would be loath to change without a great deal of work and thought.
    And by people a lot smarter than me.

    When Mitt Romney lost in 2012 Trump tweeted, “The electoral college
    is a disaster for democracy” Well, he won because of the electoral
    college and I doubt if he is going to – for the sake of democracy –
    give up his win. Nor should he.

    I didn’t vote for either of the two main candidates and can’t help
    remembering the quote, “Be careful what you wish for”.

    Just an observation, of course.

    1. Pity that we are a Constitutional Representative Republic..and NOT a horrid Democracy, eh? The Electoral College allows all the States to have say in whom becomes the President of all the States.

    2. I’ll bet over a million of those votes are illegal i.e. (non citizens, dead people, fraudulent machines that flip your vote). She did not win the popular vote!

      1. Lone Wolf

        They are still counting ballots in some states and the count has given Trump even more electoral votes (290) and in addition it looks like Trump will end up with the popular vote. If you figure in all the votes that shouldn’t be there at all he will win the popular vote by even a bigger margin.

  13. Same thing in Canada. Cities more left leaning & rural to the right. Universities have many left leaning profs. some very far left & your essays must reflect that if you hope to pass…I know from experience.

    1. They are called citiots for a reason! And schools do more indoctrinating than educating, have for some time, and are only getting worse.

      1. @BAM BAM; “And schools do more indoctrinating than educating, have for some time, and are only getting worse.”
        Yet they keep pushing 4 yr degrees for folks to end up flipping burgers.

        Yep, and that is why we “uneducated white males” are demonized in this fashion: Because we made the choice to NOT attend the 4 year indoctrination.
        It doesn’t matter at all to these “I know better whats good for you” people that there are other forms of education. All they care about is the fact that YOU are not yet indoctrinated by their socialist/communist hard left leaning “Tenured professors.”
        I can program computer based systems, I can repair with the correct tools just about anything you can come up with, weld/machine metals, do carpentry, farm, raise/breed and process animals, defend my family, operate many types of machinery. I can make informed choices. I think I can carry on a thinking conversation. I did see much of the indoctrination in the college education I did get, passed on the 4 year total mind screw. I saw it then for what it was and how the professors twisted things the way they wanted them believed. I called a couple of them on their BS, but it just ended up getting me labeled. It made me sick. Maybe that was because I was not a snot nosed kid from high school burning daddy’s money but was a former service member already working on a 3rd career.

        Can you imagine the nationwide sh*t storm that would be going on right now if the election coverage media panel people on ABC that were telling us that it is “uneducated WHITE males” that were the problem with Mr. Trump getting elected. What would have happened if they had said “Uneducated BLACK/BROWN male.” What kind of riots would we be dealing with? I surely see this as reverse discrimination. SOoooooo Tired of this from the “better than you because we have degrees in nose picking” crowd.
        Rant Over- So Happy that the election left ALL these F’ing IDIOTS scratching their heads and asking “what the hell just happened?”

        1. My father(born in 1929) only went thru the 7th grade cause he had to quit to take care of his mother. Never went back to school.
          He became a Brick Contractor–always had a job/work to do.
          We lived in the city-Charlotte NC he paid the mtg off on house.
          When he died in 2004 he left my mother with enough money to live on.
          Smartest man I ever knew.

      2. my youngest grandson (senior in HS) always calls it

        “being programmed by the gov”

        i’m thankful he recognizes it for what it is

      3. Bam Bam, So true!!! We are letting our kid finish up her diploma work at home. We are so done!
        It’s sickening and evil.
        Just read an article about an 11 year old, in TEXAS of all places, who was hospitalized because he was beaten up so badly over his support of Trump in a mock classroom election!
        They’re pulling the same sh!t in the high school over here!!
        We’re putting together a letter this weekend to the Board of Ed, Principal, etc. and getting the hell out of that sh!it swamp!
        I find it really interesting that these liberals claim to be peace loving hippie types BUT THEY THREATEN DEATH, BURN CITIES DOWN, BEAT INNOCENTS, etc. How can you need “safe spaces” when you hear “trigger words” but also cause kinds of horrific mayhem?
        Some are getting paid, and all are brainwashed!
        I’ll pray for them, but we gotta get the heck out asap.
        It doesn’t matter that we are surrounded by farms where we are.
        We still live in a blue state and a blue town surrounded by people with dark hearts.

  14. It seems to me that 24 year olds and younger have really only known BHO as a president. And back in February he basically assured them that Trump would not be their next president. This is probably the first political defeat for young people unaccustomed to the label ‘loser’, and ill-prepared to deal with it (“You can’t always get what you want”). And for the most part, they have not been informed about the details of the Clinton family’s extensive criminal history.

    I was much more optimistic and idealistic (and naive) when I was younger…

    1. (I suppose Bernie was a loss for that demographic, I should say. But minor compared to Trump. And there are MANY disappointments waiting for them down the political road now.)

  15. WARNING!!
    Now even after the election is over, the media instead of changing their ways, are at it again being selective on what they reporting!! The fight is not over just because the election is over. The powers that control the media and our Govt. are planning events that WILL escalate over the next week of so into a very bad situation for us.

    Our local and state law enforcement need our support. Our National Guard need to be alert for the possibility of illegal orders being given that violate the Constitution.

    Control over us is what they want. I believe they plan to achieve this by distraction at first, but if they are exposed, they’ll take the gloves off and expose themselves and do whatever it takes.

    Stay Alert!!

  16. Like I once heard someone say,” It’s easier to pull the wool over a city slicker`s eyes, than old Uncle Zeke sittin thar in bibbs`n usin` a spitoon”.

  17. @ CR

    I believe that was Clint Smith, the same man that said “Beware the man who only has one gun. He probably knows how to use it!”

    NRP

  18. My personal favorite….

    “A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him ‘Why do you carry a 45?’ The Ranger responded, ‘Because they don’t make a 46.'”

    I totally agree

    NRP

  19. Living in the suburbs, and being small business owners we have contact with quite a few people and we do see a mix. Although we have many lefties around us, we also know a lot more right leaning people than you would think. That said, one look at which propositions were voted in here in CA this year tells the story – way too many leftists/socialists here for my taste.

    Driving to work this morning, all I heard was the media bashing Trump the whole way. That and talk about all the protesters shutting down the 101 Freeway in LA last night. For anyone who has never been to downtown LA, it is a main artery that is HEAVILY traveled day and night. I understand some drivers were stuck for up to 2 hours as police worked to try to clear people out of the traffic lanes. The freeway was eventually closed for most of the night to clear up the debris left behind so people could drive safely into downtown to work this morning. So glad I don’t have to drive anywhere near there.

    I guess this can go either way right now – the big-city protests can spread to smaller cities and get worse, or the protesters will burn themselves out and lose momentum. Keeping a close eye on things and staying out of harm’s way… I will continue to hope for the best – and prep for the worst.

    1. @ So Cal Gal

      Just watch your 6 out there Kido, even Diego can turn ugly real quick like.

      NRP

      1. I left S. CA in ’74 and glad I did. I think very soon it will not be a very nice place to be. If you have any options to move away, please get it done soon!! Even if its just to Big Bear or Lake Arrowhead!! Before TSA/DHS checkpoints get set up!!

        1. Thanks NRP and BW,

          Very vigilant and added a closer BOL option to our choices. Protesters out again today from USC and UCLA, and apparently some school kids around So Cal have walked out of school ALONG WITH THEIR TEACHERS to stage protests. I’m so pleased my tax dollars are paying for that type of education.

          One of our employees has a teacher in the family who called him a little while ago to say 2 classrooms full of kids tried to pull that stunt at her school, and the principal told the kids in no uncertain terms to get back into their classrooms. I guess he told them he was having none of that behavior during school hours, and they peacefully went back to class. At least someone took a stand – can you imagine if one of these kids gets hurt during one of the street protests when their parents think they are safe in school?

          Keeping a extremely close eye on the happenings just in case anything starts happening around home or office.

          1. So Cal Gal
            Just be cautious, those children believe they are invincible.

            Can not believe the schools did not punish the students for skipping classes.

          2. Has anyone wondered why the college students are having mental breakdowns? First Bernie pledged a free college education, then Hilary went far left to compete for the millennial vote to carry Bernie’s pledge. Like an adult baby just got pulled from the nipple, they are gonna cry and have an adolescent fit. It’s tough after what they were told by the left, but I think they now realize they will have to earn a living to pay off their own debts like every one else has to.

          3. I doubt it. That kind of attitude doesn’t develop in a day. They’ve always been given everything. They’ve always had Mommy and Daddy stepping in to keep them from learning anything about real life. It’s what they expect. The expectation won’t go away overnight.

          4. I think it’s just called “growing up”.
            These people are acting like babies.

  20. To all those that are ‘thinking’ about making the move to a more desirable location:
    ‘If you REALLY want to do it, you will find a way to do it.
    If you REALLY don’t want to do it, you will find an excuse not to do it.’

  21. I have a few questions, and hope I am ready to word them well. I know that we all do it sometimes – separate “them” and “us”. But what good does it do really? What about in betweeners? Those that live self-sufficiently but just don’t believe that the color of a person’s skin or their sexuality should mean it is ok to be strung up from the tree above the garden?

    1. @bold skeptic,

      There are definitely many ‘in-betweeners’ living in cities/pop-dense-suburbia as well as rural. I did paint with very broad brush strokes in order to garner general discussion. There is no doubt though IMO that the generalities are true (voting and lifestyle differences between cities and rural).

      I’m not sure where you’re coming from however when you say that it is implied to be okay to string someone from a tree above the garden…

      1. I was just referring to the fact that so many who put down liberals seem to care so little about why they are liberal in the first place. Isn’t it safe to say that these more rural folks we speak of are probably white Christians in great numbers? Not that that alone is the issue….I am colorblind, but I do have a problem when someone thinks theirs is the only religion and still uphold the belief that it is ok to harm others based on their beliefs or race etc… I didn’t mean this as a comment to the original article specifically – I was inquiring more to the whole group….don’t we think we can be just “progressive” enough to let “different” people live happily while still being rurally based?

        1. @bold skeptic,

          “Isn’t it safe to say that these more rural folks we speak of are probably white Christians in great numbers?”

          Maybe, although it probably depends on the geographical region. Additionally, I do not believe that one’s race, gender, or religion has much to do with the general lifestyle differences between rural and city dwellers. There’s something else at work here…

          “I do have a problem when someone thinks theirs is the only religion and still uphold the belief that it is ok to harm others based on their beliefs or race etc…”

          Since you’re using the word, ‘harm’… If that ‘other’ belief is intent on ‘harming’ me, that is a BIG problem (and should be visa-versa). There is freedom of religion here, but when it comes to ‘harm’, that’s crossing the line into the legal system…

    2. I do not see many here that refer to us or them on most issues – except one, to uphold and defend the Constitution. You can not be a “in-betweener” when it comes to the rule of law for the country.

      If you want to live in the city, have a garden, raise a few rabbits, and attend a job full time or part time, no one here will fault you for this decision. If you are white, brown, purple, or orange no one here will think more or less of you – not an us or them issue. If you are one of the many definitions of gender expounded on social media, no one here gives a damn. Live the best life you can and let others do the same.

      1. Great point – you cannot be an in betweener about the constitution. I like that. And is it safe to say that to some degree both Dems and Reps try to pull the constitution apart? Obviously I can see that people feel dems do this to a greater degree. I see that.

        Thanks for the reassurance, I would like to think I am welcomed here because you all really do have lots of great information to share.

        1. Bold Skeptic, have you ever seen conservatives riot and destroy property when they don’t get their way? They really don’t have the tendency towards violence and stringing people up. Lauren is right: you have been misinformed, but I hope you will enjoy getting to know some conservatives (and some not so conservative) as you learn more about preparing yourself for different types of disasters on this terrific site.

          1. The KKK was primarily democrat, and they supported (and spoke out in favor of) the subjugation of the black race by welfare “reform.”

          2. Very true but at a time when Democrats were considered conservative. I actually regretted my comment but it was meant to show that it is indeed a wide brush we paint with.

        2. Good evening, bold skeptic,

          What makes this blog a really beautiful thing is that we are all unique-
          coming from all walks of life, regions, backgrounds, ages, lifestyles, and more….we respectfully discuss and learn here- keeping our eyes on our shared goals of preparedness and living sustainably, all the while enjoying the journey…

          Peace to you and welcome…

          Shepherdess

    3. You have obviously been told, probably all your life, what conservatives believe. And trust be, it’s far from the truth. It might be helpful to consider why conservatives are the way they are, aside from being “white Christians,” as if all white Christians are conservatives, which is far from the truth.

      Conservatives are not, no matter what you’ve been told, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc. These are labels that have been put on conservatives because the liberal media wants to divide us. I had a good example of this a few months ago, when I was in the same room as my (liberal) BIL and he was holding forth about how if Thumper was elected he would be trying to take away the guns.

      Same message, umpteenth verse, but from the opposite side. At this point the media and politicians have split the US to the point that most people don’t even try to understand the “other side.” They’ve been told, ad nauseum, that the divide between “us” and “them” is insurmountable. Then they feed both sides the same rhetoric, and no one hears both sides so no one puts the pieces together.

      I have never in my whole life heard a conservative even suggest that it’s right to string someone up FOR ANY REASON, and frankly I’m insulted by that kind of hatred.

      If you stick around you may get to know a few conservatives–you may also get to know a few liberals. And I mean get to know, not assume based on a false label.

      1. This person will also learn that there is a line as Ken said.

        If you try to harm me, my family, or my friends and you will experience the most violence I can deliver. That will definitely be a me and you problem – no wide brush strokes at all.

      2. Lauren, I sincerely apologize for offending you. I am here to learn. I have not been told much of anything my whole life, to be honest. I do think sometimes the word conservative is equated with right week extremists, and I don’t think that is always true at all.

        I am interested – how do you define conservative? I think labels that people choose for themselves are also labels that each individual deserves to define for themselves.

        1. I’m offended in general by people who try to define me without ever knowing me. You stated “Those that live self-sufficiently but just don’t believe that the color of a person’s skin or their sexuality should mean it is ok to be strung up from the tree above the garden?” You also stated in another comment, “Isn’t it safe to say that these more rural folks we speak of are probably white Christians in great numbers?…I do have a problem when someone thinks theirs is the only religion and still uphold the belief that it is ok to harm others based on their beliefs or race etc.”

          This tells me that you believe anyone who doesn’t share your beliefs (anyone who is a white Christian, for example) is perfectly willing to destroy someone else’s life for that belief. Your comments tell me you have a specific view of “them” and you’re trying very hard to fit everyone you meet into that pigeonhole. Sorry, but the vast majority WILL NOT FIT.

          I am conservative in the fact that I believe in the constitution as originally written. I do not believe that the .gov has a part in every bit of our lives or the right to regulate. That right belongs to the states, if they choose to exercise it.

          In the constitution the federal government was given a carefully defined set of responsibilities–no rights. ALL rights were given to the states, or to the people. That set of responsibilities has been twisted and warped out of shape until the original founders wouldn’t recognize it.

          I am a conservative in that I do not believe it is either ethical or safe to give people everything. When people are given everything they stagnate. They struggle to fill that void of self-respect in any way they can and that often comes out in violent and self-destructive behavior.

          I am a conservative in that I do not believe it is either ethical or moral to run up a debt that our great grandchildren won’t be able to pay, and then to kick the can down the road when it comes due. I do not believe that stealing from one person (or generation) to give to another is right.

          I am a conservative in that I will defend myself and my family if necessary, even from the government. I believe that we are endowed (if you choose to eliminate “the creator” from the equation it’s your choice) with certain inalienable rights. Among these are life (including the right to defend life and property), liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness. Happiness can’t be given–it has to be earned.

          I could go on for a while, but what it amounts to is that I am the polar opposite of many of the people I associate with on a day to day basis. What matters to me doesn’t matter to them, including the freedom to think and feel and believe without limitation. I choose to take for myself the freedom not to participate in government handouts and to try to take care of myself to the extent that is possible. I refuse the government’s belief that I am only a cog in the machine, a serf to feed the beast.

          I am a conservative.

          1. Lauren
            Very well said, and the founding fathers hopefully are proud of your analogy.

          2. Thanks Lauren. Sincerely. I appreciate you taking the time to describe to me what conservative means for you. Like I said, I am here to learn and I am more open minded than I sounded or I would not be here. I try not to pigeohole people, but, I am sure I fail at this too sometimes. I am a work in progress.

  22. I will say this.
    I am sick and tired of all this talk about the LSM and their handling of Trump.
    If you would STOP being hypcrites and take away their jobs{cut the cord}there would be no complaining.
    So, I don’t want to hear one more complaint about fair and balanced…or unfair and unbalanced as you claim it to be.
    CUT THE CORD

  23. When I was younger I liked the adrenaline rush of the city,the feeling that you were significant and “cool” for living in an upbeat sophisticated place. I realize now that you may be forced to conform like a frog in a pot and now I hate cities.

    I like a small town with a true community feel and away from a concrete jungle. I missed the wide open sky of my Wyoming childhood even though growing up I sure wanted to go to a city. Independent thinkers live in rural places because there’s less need to “fit in” like the city rats. In spite of persecution in the city, I retained my independent ways.

    But you have to be brave to be different. The pressure is enormous..the city I speak of is Portlandia..home of the ‘Keep Portland Weird’people. Guess I wasn’t weird enough..too conservative, too white, loved freedom of speech.(not walking on eggs) If you disagree you are automatically a bigot and racist. Really?!

    These Snowflaky millennials drive me crazy.They need to use their own brains. Toughen up. Move to Cuba not Canada. That would toughen them up.

    1. Northern Canada would be toughen up or die. Minus 30 in the winter sometimes, horse flys in the summer that take big bites out of you, and if way up north – not much firewood to keep you warm. Get then used to blubber and bear meat. They do not appreciate the gifts offered by America.

    2. @Pojo
      I live in the country now, but I grew up in Chicago. I was however born with a stubborn resistance to conformity and have always seen it as a badge of honor. I guess I’m just contrarian in nature. When everyone else in school was heralding in the age of disco I was cheering Steve Dahl and Gary Meyer when they blew up thousands of disco records at commisky park. When everyone else went to pop music I went with classic rock, heavy metal and punk. Somehow I just always look at trends as something to avoid rather than join. Teachers would sometimes say I had the “in one ear out the other” syndrome because I couldn’t be indoctrinated. I guess I was just naturally immune. It wasn’t always easy (lots of detentions and suspensions) but I guess if it was it wouldn’t have been as enjoyable.

      So when I came of political age I naturally backed republicans while the rest of Chicago and cook county have a huge democratic majority. I’d probably still be there bucking trends and going against the grain just to get a rise out of people, but I finally just had enough of watching my tax dollars fund stuff I would never use or benefit from. So now I live “near” a one stoplight town (5 miles) that doesn’t even have a mayor let alone a failing pension plan. It does get a little boring at times though with no one around to argue with. I’ve often considered pretending to be a liberal around here just to see whose nerves I could get on, but I don’t have it in me and wouldn’t know where to start. 🙂

      1. Grits,

        You just described my childhood:

        “but I grew up in Chicago. I was however born with a stubborn resistance to conformity and have always seen it as a badge of honor. I guess I’m just contrarian in nature. When everyone else in school was heralding in the age of disco I was cheering Steve Dahl and Gary Meyer when they blew up thousands of disco records at commisky park.”

        Disco Sucks! Helped really launch their radio show too, WLUP “The Loop 98”.. That night at the old Comiskey… I watched that happen on live TV from not far away. Until the feed was cut when the crowd spilled onto the field and tried to tip over the Channel 2 live truck. What Godless awesomeness!! I miss those days.

        1. @McGyver
          Good times indeed. I think that was a good moment for me as I realized that I wasn’t so alone in going against the grain. I was always a non conformist and in school I just assumed I was the only one because everyone else just seemed to tow the line. Seeing so many people on TV rebelling against something so popular or trendy was inspirational. I would try to convert friends into my way of viewing the world but I wouldn’t reject them as friends if I couldn’t. I still argue with many of them today. I don’t like my friends to be yes men. If you don’t have different points of view or opinions, you also don’t have options or choices. We all have our own paths to walk. Sometimes they cross, sometimes they’re oncoming, but sometimes they merge or run tandem.

  24. It appears that there are two different distinct types of people here –
    1) Talkers
    2) Doers

    Which one are you ?

    1. Sorry, can’t talk now. Have to feed the animals, bring in firewood, and turn my steaks. ha ha

  25. I have taught for 36 years. Most of the time it was in a small southern town. We had mostly country students. Another town in the same county had such low scores the state threatened to take it over. They decided to send all the city students to my school. It was unbelievable the difference in their attitudes and behavior. As some one else said the city students fed on each other’s ideas and were out of control. The country students thought for themselves and generally much better behaved. I am sure there were some exceptions to this. These ideas carry over into voting. I know there are plenty of well behaved city students but in this case they were not.

  26. @homebody
    Heavens, you’re right. Northern Canada would be a great colony for them to learn how to survive in a cold cruel world.

  27. We see this “city” versus “rural” difference in our family also. After Trump won and many woke up the next morning stunned by the news, it became apparent that the advice they gave us to give Obama a chance didn’t hold true for them with Trump at the helm. But the funniest comment came from my spouse after watching the rioting and news reports of college students who cannot cope with the election outcome. He said, “Hey, do you think all those people will become Preppers now?”and then he started laughing.

  28. For goodness sake please stop suggesting that your malcontents should come up here to Canada ! We get enough snowflakes up here as it is.

  29. From a town of a few thousand in New Hampshire, where Trump won by about 700 votes, there is still a lot of whining. Church nearby holding a “post election” prayer service, ppl were offering muffins and hugs at the polls, with signs stating “this election has kinda sucked.” Oh, and the major employer?Ruger. The lunacy is everywhere..

  30. And no, if Clinton had won, I seriously doubt there would have been a “post election prayer service.” Or counseling for people traumatized by her win. Craziness.

  31. This past election, I was a fence sitter until Hillary called me names. So now I am labeled as a “Deplorable”. In Prior elections, I have been labeled as a “Bitter Clinger” Decades ago, I was called a “Redneck” by a fellow from Alabama. Before that, I was a Law and Order Republican by virtue of my chosen career.

    I wear the label of Redneck proudly. I am not exactly white. (being Asian, I refer to myself as a white guy with a driving disorder) Why is it that the Dems always have to resort to name calling? I left People’s Republic of Kalifornia years ago around the time Ken started this blog. (where does it rank now? pretty close to top 10 sites when last I heard)

    To the Dems out there rioting and acting like spoiled children with petrol bombs: Time to grow up. You lost me a long time ago. I have nothing in common with you. I observed that the people in the cars being interviewed by the news were mostly saying: “I’m coming home from work and I just want to get through and go home.”

    I wonder how many of the people protesting have jobs? How many have careers or children at home to care for? How many of us are taking care of older adults? Republicans are Democrats that have been mugged or have seen some real hardship in life.

  32. Sorry BAM BAM and Canadagal, there was talk by a number of left leaning “Snowflakes” to relocate to Canada if Trump won the election. If I remember right, it was a promotion by a realtor in British Columbia. One thing about the snowflakes is all they do is talk. they never do things. My feeling is there will probably not relocate to Canada. Right now they are too busy “reconfiguring” downtown Portland. (modern day Urban Renewal)

    I have far too many handguns to sell off in order to make such a move. I’ve got my redneck friends down here to do silly things with. It was enough for me to relocate far enough out of Kalifornia to find my happy place. (and more storage space for my TP stash.)

    1. @ CaliRefugee

      “(and more storage space for my TP stash.)”

      HAHAAH Gata LOVE it my friend….

      ROFLMAO

      Ya know what’s really odd? I buddy loaned me a large magnet and his boat, I recovered my stash from the bottom of Navajo Lake…. Imagine that LOLOL

      NRP

      1. That was just your imagination. It wasn’t Navajo Lake, either. But opsec means I can’t tell you which lake it was.

        1. @ Lauren

          Ahhhh Dang it, I guess it could have been;

          ABIQUIU DAM, CONTINENTAL RESERVOIR, EL VADO LAKE, HERON LAKE STATE PARK, HOPEWELL LAKE, LA JARA RESERVOIR, LAKE POWELL, LEMON RESERVOIR, McPHEE RESERVOIR, MORGAN LAKE, NAVAJO DAM & RESERVOIR, PLATORO DAM, RIO GRANDE RESERVOIR, SAN CRISTOBAL LAKE, SAN LUIS LAKES, SANTA CRUZ LAKE, SMITH RESERVOIR, VALLECITO LAKE, WILLIAMS CREEK

          OR, one of the many (9-12) Rivers in the area…. Oops

          HAHAHA, so much for an old-mans memory… HAHAHA

          NRP

    2. Actually just today I was talking to a local real estate agent I know who had a couple of calls from N.Y. state looking for properties. He laughingly predicted that he could profit twice off of them after they came to their senses and went home in a couple of years ! Ontario is currently in worse financial shape than California thanks to continual mismanagement by our provincial airheads. Not so back when fiscal conservatives were at the helm and we were comfortably in the black. Hydro electric rates alone are the third worst among the provinces with liberal Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island leading. This is in a province with an abundance of natural resources that would be the envy of most countries this size. Meanwhile I have about a 14 month wait ahead just for a consultation with a neurologist. One of the best mayors Toronto ever had was a crack addict who made Trump look quite refined and articulate. Meanwhile the tax funded C.B.C.[ Canadian Broadcasting Corporation or Canadian Bull***t Center ] are having kittens over Trump’s win and gender identity – I think we are up to 31 or so recognized genders ? WTF !?! I could go on but I have to go and have a drink of overtaxed government regulated liquor now or my head will explode just from thinking about this lunacy.

      1. BAM BAM

        you said…”One of the best mayors Toronto ever had was a crack addict who made Trump look quite refined and articulate”

        well said, and all true..

        also, one of the best Premiers ever, Ralph Klein, and much the same. Maybe even better…When Ralph was Premier, we had a HUGE Rainy Day fund (now gone), and MUCH better/more health benefits…Back in Ralph’s day, one could get physio as long as one needed, (knew someone who had it for two and half yrs), and it was all included in our Health Care. Now …NO physio, except for about five visits for some bone breaks..then you pay for it.

        yuppers…

        and as for 31 Genders…Heard on the news the other day, the Alberta Govt, Education Department has issued instruction manuals to Teachers, re all this stuff, and has now included one more ….”Two Spirit” children…Me, have no idea, none, what that means..

        I am not saying anyone…ANYONE should be abused/or / treated badly…BUT if society is truly have these many persons with mixed genders it IS time to get rid of the chemicals causing it.

  33. you all are not going to have to worry, not at all, about any illegals being deported….

    From what I read/hear in our news, our wonderful Prime Minister (the one who is all sunshine and Unicorn Kisses), is eager to have them.

    His wonderful government (yes the Canadian Government, but he thinks it is HIS), has decided that come Dec 1,2016, there will be NO MORE Visa requirements for any originating from Mexico.

    His wonderful government has also stated (just read this this morning) that Canada will have to Ramp Up our immigration/refugee services to those of Mexican origin, as they are certain there will be an explosion of Mexicans landing (scurrying into/sneaking into) Canada requesting Refugee status.

    WTF??? Sheesh

    1. This imbecile is best described by ” dad’s arrogance and mom’s brains ”. Pierre Elliot Trudeau did damage to this country with his socialist big brother policies that we will never recover from. There are actually a lot of similarities between him and world class loser Obummer. Minority [ French Canadian ], never worked a day at a real job [ wealthy armchair socialist ], good oration skills and charming to a lot of superficial fools, unbridled arrogance towards the average citizen, and no clue or conscience when it came to mismanaging their high office. Remember ‘ Trudeau mania ‘ ? The same type of mass dementia personality cult that empowered Obama. Trudeau senior liked to ride his motorcycle around the streets of Montreal [ with a large Jewish population ] sporting a swastika and German helmet during his youth ! Revisionists never like to mention that. As far as Margaret T. was concerned, she has always been a mentally ill hippy chick who was an international embarrassment. I know of first hand accounts from a nameless Mountie [ their security was considered a punishment detail ] that would make you shake your head.

  34. some of us were wondering if O could pardon H before she was actually charged…Just read an article which seems to say yes.

    “White House won’t rule out a pardon for Clinton to prevent Trump from exacting ‘political revenge’

    The White House on Wednesday wouldn’t rule out issuing a pardon to protect Hillary Clinton from prosecution by the incoming administration over her use of a private e-mail server.

    White House press secretary Josh Earnest ……. indicated Obama was hopeful a pardon wouldn’t be necessary

    But proactively offering a pardon isn’t unprecedented. In 1974, Gerald Ford gave former president Richard Nixon a full and unconditional pardon for any crimes he might have committed while in the Oval Office.

  35. During my life I have lived in both the city and rural. I have found overall that rural people are more friendly. They also speak English. I now live in a rural area (retired) and life is a lot more pleasant in a rural environment. Based on my observations of people in the bit city, the big cities will become death traps even if nothing serious happens. Big cities are like islands in that all they have they get from elsewhere. One other thing I noticed about the big city is that the people there tend to be whiners. They are never happy and their stress level is always in the red zone.

  36. In big cities, you learn to become more dependant on some things like Public Transport, reliable electricity and gasoline being available all of the time. When you live in the country, you learn to do things yourselves and plan ahead. There are fewer people to help you if you are hurt or in trouble. If you live long enough, you see or live through black outs, riots and gas lines ( 1970’s California during the Carter Presidency ) For me, I saw these breaks in service as being scary events that pointed to the fragility of the infrastructure. That is why I left the big cities as soon as I could.

  37. Don’t be fooled into thinking city folk will just quietly starve to death. Hunger breads desperation. People will eat their young. They are consolidated while we are dispersed. Sure there will be a moment of anarchy, but human beings for the most part want structure. And they will gladly bow down or accept a tyrant. Don’t fool yourself into thinking you and your neighbors will form a militia that’ll stand against a hoard of starving survivors storming out of LA. They just need the barest amount of coordination to overwhelm any rural population with their numbers. Your only hope is to live outside their logistical reach or go undetected. Or hope the power that fills the vacuum is a reasonable one wanting to trade.

    1. A quantity of city-roamers can be dealt with.

      Anyone foolish to believe they can out-manuever a well-armed person or group that knows their home-ground and community will never make it out alive.

  38. Some people who grew up in the city were raised country/mountain style.
    I knew how to can/preserve food before I ever heard of this thing called prepping. Also gardening.
    I might not know how to hunt but I do know how to fish.
    I will never eat a working animal=horse, donkey, mule or dog.
    You eat your dog there goes your alarm..
    They shopped every payday for things like that then when end of month
    came around they didn’t have the $$ to pay bills.
    But I did.
    Not bragging but letting you know how I was brought up

  39. For a long time now (30 years), I’ve had this hypothesis, that in general, rural areas and small towns naturally develop a sense of community, and look to their competent, independent neighbors for help. Natural consequences are a big teaching tool in the country. We humans are designed for community (not communes), and it doesn’t depend on political or religious agreement. Barn raising, town hall meetings, volunteerism before it was called that, and keeping an eye on the neighborhood kids. Everyone knows everyone else’s business. There are downsides, of course, but it worked fairly well. However, in the city, a sense of community does not develop naturally; plenty of neighbors, but no help (call the supe to fix it). Anonymity often encourages bad behavior (‘no one I know knows I did it’), and I think many city dwellers then look for help/justice (“There oughta be a law …”) from government. Natural consequences can be avoided easily in the city. Big Brother did kind of help, but as always, grew in power and control, and city folk accept the loss of freedom in exchange for the support neighbors would have provided in the country. So that’s why you’ll see more liberals (social justice! I can’t do it alone!) in dense populations, and more conservatives (I can do it! Holler if you need help!) in rural areas. Hmmm … what do you think?

    1. PL C,that pretty well sums it up. Each generation in the city is becoming more dependant than the one before it. They are getting the attitude that they are somehow better than the rural folks. It should be a symbiotic relationship but it’s not. The city produces doctors and teachers and the rural produces food and the means to ship it. Not the case anymore.
      Those Hunger game movies are this situation brought out to its conclusion. Saw the rebellion at the polls this year. Should be a wake up call to city mentality but seems lost on them.
      People have to get used to the word NO again. They haven’t heard it in many years…

      1. @Bill Jenkins Horse, I love your posts and look forward to them.

        My hubby is a country boy who grew up and became a Physician. Yes, he had to move to the city for the education, but he will always be country. Rest assured, he and I have country values. Luv ya’ll, Beach’n

    2. @ PL C

      I like to add, so here is the add for your comment that Bill so well noted to…

      If/When TSHTF, get the he11 OUT of the cities FAST!!!!

      Take note on what’s going on with those little sh1ts in the collages now….. than envision a full out (fill in the blank) SHTF…..

      NRP

  40. I haven’t read every comment yet, but if there is a 80-90% die off in a catastrophic event, most will be in ‘blue’ cities and rural ‘red’ America will be able to rebuild.

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