The Stark Political Party Affiliation Contrasted With Population Density

Population Density Map United States
Red = 5,000 or greater -people per square mile!

 
It is generally well known that population density is directly related, associated and proportional to political party affiliation.

When tightly packed humans live shoulder-to-shoulder in a geographically small area, their political outlook and ideals are often very different from other humans who live in places with more “breathing room” – places where they’re not constantly bumping into each other.

I came across a very interesting statistic and visualization which presents a stark, blunt, and outright undeniable reality that we are divided here in America not only by our political ideals, but by geographical regions. There literally are lines in the sand. When you cross from one side to the other, you are entering a different political world…

Take a look:


 
Visual data sourced from overflow.solutions, May-2017.

 
90% of the 100 most population-dense congressional districts
…are represented by a Democrat.

80% of the 100 least population-dense congressional districts
…are represented by a Republican.

 Of the 435 congressional districts, if you split them in half by population density, the half with the lowest population-dense districts are represented by 80% Republicans.

The half with the highest population-dense districts are represented by 70% Democrats.

Can you see the divide?

 
Given the current and extreme political differences being exhibited today (leading up to, and ever since the Nov-2016 election), I found it interesting to visualize yet another additional “line in the sand” from a geographical perspective (population density).

This also does not seem very healthy to me from the perspective of consequential regulating influence of population-dense politics over that of the other.

Although local governments (town vs. city) may smooth out some of the regulatory differences from one set of needs to the other, from a bigger perspective State and Federal laws and regulations do indeed get forced upon the vast geographical regions from just a tiny pin of densely populated busy bodies…

I have written about this (population density vs. political ideals) several times before, however I still find it intriguing whenever I discover more supporting evidence of this stark reality.

One of the things that have always concerned me about this is how an extremely small geographical area of a State, a tiny percentage thereof, a pinpoint, can dictate their (mostly “left” or “progressive”) ideals (governing laws, regulations) to that of the vast geographical expanse of the State itself where lifestyle and values are often very different. While this does not occur in every state, it certainly has an effect for most…

 
Questions to contemplate:

How do you see this “divide” unfolding? Especially given the “in your face” mainstream push that we are seeing both in the media and overflowing into the streets of America?

Is this a new concern?
…or is this simply the way it has always been and always will be?

If it is a concern, is it an increasing one or even a dangerous thing?

For those of you who live or work in population-dense districts, do you see, experience, or have to deal with “the lines”?

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79 Comments

  1. Well, since I abhor Repubs and loathe Dems, it is of no concern to me. I just ignore all of them.

    1. Which is actually part of the problem. Ignoring the problems will not make them go away and you’ll end up stuck with the decisions they make.

      1. I would prefer a French 1789 solution but few others seem interested.

        To quote Davey Crockett “You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas”

    2. Sir: You may be ignoring them. They are not ignoring you. No one’s life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature, at any level(federal, state, local) is in session. Plan accordingly.

  2. It is all about self-sufficiency. People in rural areas are more self-sufficient. Partly by necessity. In rural areas there are fewer services and you have to learn to do more things yourself, including self defense. In my town (pop 1,800) there are 5 police officers including the chief who also answers calls (plus the records clerk and the animal control officer so a total of 7.) We usually have only one officer on patrol at any one time. Our county seat has 1,200 people and 4 officers total. They have someone on patrol during the daytime, buy any nighttime calls are taken by the sheriff. I looked online for the number of sheriff deputies in our county, but couldn’t find it. However it appears that, not counting jail staff, dispatchers, clerks, etc., there are 10 patrol officers and 4 supervisors (sheriff, undersheriff, captain, lieutenant) for a county of 3,100 sq miles. The county sheriff’s office handles all 911 calls for both towns. In a state that has a half million residents and 97,914 sq miles. There are only 1,691 law enforcement officers. That includes state, county, town, and tribal officers. This includes dispatchers, jail guards, trainers, etc. In our county if you have an emergency, the only sheriff on duty could be 40 or 50 miles away.

    In big cities, there are all kinds of services you have trouble finding in rural areas, including house cleaners, gardeners, electricians, plumbers, home health aides…. It is almost impossible to get an electrician here, and there is often a long wait to get a doctor’s appointment, a car repaired, or plumbing fixed.

    In cities, there are homeless shelters, food banks, health clinics, and don’t forget accountants, lawyers, psychiatrists, financial counselors, stockbrokers, day care centers, and other things that are in short supply or non-existent here. They don’t even plow our streets here except the two state highways (one going north/south and one going from the middle of town to the east.)

    People in big cities are used to the government taking care of them and so they vote for big government politicians. In rural areas, the government is mostly here to obstruct you from doing what you want to do.

    1. @Daisy K, Good general analysis.

      City dwellers are used to (and often require) more services. Also, more people – more problems, and more “authority” required to keep law-and-order.

      Rural dwellers simply have fewer choices and are forced to take matters into their own hands for many things (at least more than city dwellers).

      Therefore mindsets are different.

      By the way, your town of 1,800 has 5 police officers?! Seems like a lot…

      My town of 1,000 has zero. And we’re all getting along just fine lol…

      1. Ken,

        I assume your sheriff is covering the town. I used to see that when I was still working. Some little towns had no police force or maybe only one man who worked 8-5 weekdays. All calls were answered by the sheriff.

        1. Yes, it’s the Sheriff up here… Although there really is very little crime comparatively.

          1. We don’t have much crime here, but I am glad we have a police department. When my crazy next door neighbor was still in town, they drove by often to keep an eye on him. When my dog fell in the river and couldn’t get out, they helped me. When my license plates expired, they notified me so that I wouldn’t get a ticket.

            I read the police notes in the paper. Most of the calls are animal related — car vs. deer accident, dogs at large, cows on the road, rattlesnakes, skunks, bears, coyotes, mountain lions, and a “crazy squirrel.” Most of the rest of the calls are related to senior citizens — “welfare checks” to see if everything is all right, older person who fell and couldn’t get up, etc. We have a lot of animals and a lot of senior citizens here.

            Not many people get tickets. If there is a dog at large, they find and return the dog to its owner. If someone drives off without paying for his or her gas, they track down the non-paying customer and collect a check to give to the gas station. If children are out after curfew (10 p.m.), they get a warning and their parents are called.

            The police department regularly visits schools to advise against drug use and other things.

            There has been talk of getting rid of the police dept, but the majority of citizens like having them.

      2. I just pulled up our police dept’s website. They have pictures of all 8 of the officers. Yes, there are eight. I forgot about Scarlet, our yellow lab K-9 unit.

        1. I’d like to hear from a police officer on this. Being on our city council and seeing detailed police reports I can tell you ‘crime’ incidents are one of their least frequent activities. Or of the most common calls are to check on the elderly, neighborhood problems. Legally nobody but cops can enter a home where someone has abandoned dogs for days, trash fires, racing. Annoyances that you don’t think of as crime but are outside of the responsibilities of citizens.

          We have a town nearby that disbanded their police department and contract out to the county sheriff. It will be near impossible for them financially to reinstate a police department ever again. The bars aren’t too happy about having to hire bouncers nor does anyone want the job so nobody wants to go to bars to risk a fight, they lose business, close down, jobs leave, tax income to the village dwindles. Save money and get rid of your police department and everybody get firearms? Very few incidents would be resolved with a gun and if they are you do not want to be there.

          1. county; “Legally nobody but cops can enter a home where someone has abandoned dogs for days,” oh yes there IS!…a GAME WARDEN can enter ANY building W/O a warrant.

  3. Not too long ago the rural areas of America were described in a Norman Rockwell way – moral, church going, family oriented, patriotic, and independent. The cities were described as beehives of crime on both the streets and in business, materialistic, and culturally decadent.

    Now, rural America is described as bible thumping, gun crazy, and ignorant rednecks. The cities are now considered high society, educated, culturally diverse, and are morally and intellectually superior.

    When I described this change of portrayal her reply was, ” I just read about the loss of coal mining jobs in Pennsylvania and Virginia. Perhaps it is because they are so ignorant that they fell for Trump’s schtick about bringing back jobs.”

    Stay frosty ( I couldn’t and had to walk away)

    1. Sadly, these days ignorance is often defined as “You don’t think my way.” The “country hicks” think differently, therefore they are uneducated and ignorant. While the people living in the country look at the knee-jerk emotional decisions, the lack of economic knowledge, the crime, and call those in the cities ignorant and uneducated.

      1. Whoa–I thought all liberals considered those not thinking like them all to be uneducated and ignorant!!

      2. In my previous small town in northern CA there is a Supervisor with a southern drawl. He is regularly not taken seriously because of the way he talks. However, it is no surprise that he is the one with the most common sense. Unfortunately, though none of us should judge, he is judged just by his accent – and he is taken to be an “uneducated, southern fool.”

        1. It is interesting how one’s dialect does influence many of those on the receiving end. For example why is it that so many people trust a British accent? (bizarre)

          I also have known people who look upon the southern drawl, or slower speech, as uneducated. This is ridiculous of course, but it’s true…

          In fact I often find that people who speak more slowly are often calculated in what they say – contrary to blabber-mouths who can’t ever seem to stop talking…

  4. Those in less populated areas, being further from the “center” of politics, tend to be less politically involved. They can’t leave their jobs and drive for an hour to attend a rally or discuss something with their senator, while those who live cheek-to-jowl in the center of a city may have to walk a few blocks to participate in a rally or “demonstration.” It gives the illusion of disinterest when it is anything but.

    1. I have found those in the rural areas are much more politically astute than most living in the big cities. I can talk politics and current events with any of my “neighbors”. Co-workers who live in town only care about sports, movie stars and reality TV.

      1. Discuss, yes, but many deep city dwellers will follow all the little lemmings to participate in a demonstration without a second thought because everyone else was doing it. They might not even know that it’s about (or care) but they’ll act in accordance with expectations.

  5. A long time back people would leave rural to pursue a bigger life in a city. Cities had more opportunities, as they do now. This migration started fading away the life of being born, raised, living and dying in your home town or area. As the late 50s (house, car) rolled into the 60s, 70s (sex/drugs/rock-n-roll, free expression, challenge the status quo), the 80s (me generation time), 90s (roaring 90s?)into the new millennia society did major changes.

    As the old Paul Newman movie Cool Hand Luke so aptly stated “What we have here is failure to communicate…” We have basically a two societal country, it’s always been there but either muted due to the decade and has emerged over time. Now there is a clear collision and conflict of society visions, ideals and direction. I think in the past differing views would merge to form a third “compromised” result that was not either view but a mashed up third view that probably no one was completely content with but it was livable (example is jeans and long hair in the work place, unknown in the 50s up to the mid-60s, then introduced and eventually accepted as the norm over many years).

    In the past decade or so, the societal changes have been many and rapid fire and people do not like rapid change. The high density city populations drive most of the change, higher population-vast mix of lifestyles and practices which is viewed as the norm within the area. The high and lower density populations have different normals/practices and neither one wants all of what the other now has or sees as future normal. So collision, no lines anymore everything is ok if it furthers your normal.

    To me we are headed for a Hunger Games as a first stage and Mad Max as the final stage, between the two will be internal conflict. I personally believe the current societal split and condition is too far gone to recover from; people do not want to recover or compromise, so over time this will continue and pick up the pace.

    Just an opinion.

    1. Compromise is now seen as weak when applied to yourself or your “side,” something the other guys do. When two teams are pulling on a rope and only one side is willing to compromise, it isn’t long before a line is crossed. And then another. Our society and our laws are based on mutual compromise but that is no longer happening.

      1. I’ll compromise, here’s the compromise, leave me alone and I won’t go batshid crazy and eradicate anyone.

        1. 50 years of compromise, indifference, and acceptance have stifled the true meaning of America, as it is doing to the church now.
          Not compromising, accepting means I still have standards to be met.

          1. I can compromise on what activity we do or where we eat lunch. I can’t compromise on things that go agains my faith or the Constitution. Those are convictions, and convictions cannot be compromised. This doesn’t mean I can’t get along with the person I disagree with as long as they don’t expect me to compromise on something they would not compromise on. Usually, we can still be friends and go our separate ways. The problem arises when the issue is one that impacts our convictions in conflicting ways. 50 years of these conflicts are coming to a head.

        2. @nailbanger

          I thought that I was the only one that still used that phrase “bat shit* crazy” and I just used it yesterday while talking with some people in a park in the town I just moved to. People always ask where your from and what bought you here. My answer is usually “too many people in the valley and half of them are bat sh*t crazy.” 🙂

  6. In NM everything comes out of Albuquerque. The whole state is mostly Democratic and Hispanic. The county I live in is the only Republican county in the state. It encompasses about 8000 sq miles, had about 3000 people and I know we have 1 policeman who travels all over the top half of the county. It is really useless to call him. By the time he gets to your place you forgot why you called. We have no services probably because we are republican. We do have 2 senior citizen centers which were almost closed by Gov. Richardson because we didn’t vote for him. We have 2 unpopular laws on the books, 1. every house must have a gun of some kind, unless it is against your religion (most do anyway) and 2. No cohabitation! They only use the second one when it suits them for some reason. We do have 12000 elk, a post office and a gas/tiny restaurant serving only beef.

    Our nearest grocery and doc office is in Socorro in a different county about 70 miles one way. Recently while at the docs someone hit our vehicle and took off. We went to the police (not to be racist, but they are all Hispanic) and gave them the license plate and a description of the person and car. They told us (as they sat in the office drinking coffee) that they were too busy now to find the person. It has been a month and still nothing. We called our insurance co, and they found the person in about 2 minutes and told us they had no insurance. If we push the police we know they will be on us every time we go there for anything. The police there give nonresidents tickets for going 2+ miles over the speed limit or a ticket for starting to increase speed when you approach an increase speed sign. They like to wait at the bottom a hill outside town on the way to our county.

    So we stay here and sometimes go the other way to AZ, but that is 100 miles and not many services. It is good to be prepared so we aren’t constantly running to the store. We do mail order and hope UPS or FEDEX don’t put new men on our route so they can find us. We have no address and still use our lot number. We have had a few liberals move in, one a real trouble maker. They are making noises about our one neighbor who had made a very safe gun range where we all site in out rifles. They want to shut down all firing of guns in the subdivision. Heck, I almost shot a mountain lion trying to get into our house last night after our cat, but he was to fast. We all move to places like this to get away from all of that nonsense, but some people always bring it with them.

  7. Lemmings like to huddle together, they can’t function without other lemmings to cling to.

  8. The reality is that there ARE two distinct cultures in America. The urban lifestyle of consumption and the rural lifestyle of self-sufficiency. Just the fact that rural dwellers have the space to retreat from conflict and the daily irritations of constantly rubbing against ones fellow man gives them a different view of life. City dwellers have constant input and stimulation. I believe it makes them edgy, irritable and needy. They also don’t depend on themselves for anything. Someone will deliver it to their door – Amazon will even ‘drone it’ to your apartment window. For the love of Pete! Heaven help them when it all falls apart.

    Akron Ohio had a city councilman who was against rezoning an area for limited agricultural use. I believe the people who lived in the area wanted to raise some backyard chickens. He said, “We don’t need farms around here. If we want milk and eggs we will go to the grocery store.” {{{HEAD SLAP}}}

    My sister lives in Columbus. Smack dab in the middle of the aging Yuppieville. McStores on every corner. Postage size lots with houses large enough to put the population of a third world nation in. There is no where to go to get away from people. To breathe. To be silent.

    1. Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth! Isaiah 5:8

  9. Go green!

    lol

    Only way you can move ‘green’ is if you make sure that the demographics align with your interests and that the tax burden is tolerable. The US is growing smaller all the time…

  10. Darn, I’m still in the mid green area on the map – I have to find something in the dark green. It appears that Idaho is attracting too many people trying to get away from people :). I guess I could learn to play the banjo and have all but one tooth pulled to try and scare Californians away.

    1. Lauren

      Yes, you are right but cities keep gobbling up good farm land so what is left – even in my rock pile area, they keep coming. I don’t really mind sharing with productive people, but many just bring their unproductive city ways with them – the golden arches can’t be too far away now.

  11. And herein lies the big problem. I have no problem with a big city being a “liberal” city. Hell, Los Angeles can be socialist if it wants, as long as it doesn’t spill over into the rest of the country.

    My problem is that all to often, these large cities hold sway over the direction of the government of the whole country.

    Many people want to say that Hillary won the popular vote… but if you remove New York City, she didn’t. If you remove NYC, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago and Seattle, then Trump won with the largest landslide in 200 years…

    Yet some people think those 5 cities should control the direction of our government, and essentially, those 5 cities should rule the rest of the country.

    1. @firestarter, Your points are exactly aligned with my thoughts.

      The major cities influence and control so much of national politics which then rolls downhill via laws and regulations which are out of alignment with much of the geographical rest of the nation and those living on the majority of its landmass other than the big cities and urban areas.

    2. firestarter,

      How about we tell Kim the fat man about some really good targets for his nuks, puff…problem solved. I’m so tired of the noise coming out of the city. Makes me want to read Atlas shrugged again.

    3. Yes, if you selectively ignore 16.5 million voters then Trump becomes Mr. Popular. If you look at it from the other point of view then you have people wondering why states that have more cows than people can overrule the majority of voters. It is a complex situation from either side of the aisle and it makes you appreciate that the founding fathers built safeguards into the constitution to handle the debate of geographical size vs. population.

  12. Yes, we are divided by geographically by our views. However as citizens we get so wrapped up in our daily lives that we don’t follow through with the actions of those we choose to represent in Congress to ensure they keep the promises they made during their campaign. Very little is done to hold their feet to the fire. Something happens to politicians when they move geographically away from their home state to D.C. Unfortunately most become servants to the lobbyist and major contributors to their campaigns instead of the majority of the population of their home state.

    The Conservatives of this country have been lied to too many times!
    Examples: Obamacare, Social Security would never be taxed, The Lottery money will go to Education, or Hwy improvements. More and more of our tax dollars are providing benefits to non citizens. I think I’m not alone when I say “I’ve had enough of the lies, I’m not going to tolerate the same behavior that has dominated D.C. I won’t accept excuses any more!

    I urge those Conservatives that read this to not allow the liberial/progressive movement to drown out your voice! Get involved by keeping track of your those that are supposed to be acting in your interest!

  13. Think about this…

    For we who do not live in the cities or urban areas, how many taxes do we pay that are mostly funding city/urban programs? One might argue “Why should we pay for that?” Why not specifically tax just the city dwellers to deal with their own problems? (for example)

    Similar with law making. Why should we who live in the country be under some of the laws and regulations that are designed towards dealing with city-urban problems?

    1. Ken, That’s why many people in Texas, North California and Oregon want to separate themselves into a separate state or country. If our country continues down this road of over spending and moral decay we will have a civil war. This would allow our enemies to hit us while we are divided and weaker.

      Have we reached a point of no return? Time will tell? I’m beginning to think the rest of the world is in such bad shape that their leaders are looking for someone to blame for their problems. Think about that for a while!!

      1. Exactly! This is what sparked the State of Jefferson movement in northern California. The taxes and “Fees” imposed on the citizens are proposed by the city representatives and paid for by just the rural folks (the fire “fee” tax), and the bullet train that will help none of the rural folks, is just ridiculous. There is no representation for the rural folks in CA or it seems many other places.

        This movement represents the hope for the whole nation. SOJ is not just a republican endeavor, it includes people from all sides of politics. There are some liberals who agree with SOJ. I pray that this movement is successful – if it is, there are many states that are watching what happens, and they may follow suit. The folks of SOJ are rural, morally-bound and good people who remember what the words “moral” and “values” mean. They know right from wrong. I pray this nation can get back to this mindset.

        1. Pegasus
          As an SOJ51 resident I can confirm that the committee for fair representation delivered a law suit against the state.

          J. Brown of course ignored it, and the representative Jim Nielson along with some side kick wrote up a bill showing that they are working a FAIR & BALANCED representation of the state ..BUT only after the people took it upon themselves to chew off the hand that barely feeds them. It is this kind of lunacy we deal with up here.

          It is not only NorCAl, Oregon, but Colorado and a few other states that are watching what happens with the SOJ movement. This goes through the rest are prepared to follow suite.

          1. Forgot to mention that they think if they ignore us we will go away…the they being J. brown and the minions in SAC. We will keep biting the hand that barely feeds the north state.

  14. This may be a naive question but I will throw it out there.

    I watch the occasional show on TV that show deserted towns and highways across this country with only a few people hanging on. These places used to be homes for totally self-sufficient communities. I know that many places would give the property away to someone to work it again and live there – is that the problem, that no one wants to work? Many on this site have related the difficulty in moving out and becoming more independent – well, I think there are many opportunities out there that only need an investment of sweat.

    I have moved eight times in my adult life in search of the right lifestyle – and I would do it again if impacted too much by society. Work has made me stronger not a wimping taker.

    1. I guess the best analogy I can give is; if camping for you has become an RV on a 15′ strip of concrete in a 1000 unit park with three pools (of urine if you read the news), an activity center that only has slot machines and candy bars, a 400 sq ft dog park, … then that is your choice. But there is a whole other country out there with elbow room if you only seek it out.

  15. I live in that MN forest of dark green, and over half the people who take up residence in my area are conservative. The map doesn’t account for the seasonal cabins of snowbirds which makes our population swell in summer and leave in fall.

    I have known the differences between city vs country in our politics for a long time. My sister is a liberal living in the city and is very resentful and delusional, while my brother lives in the suburbs and is middle of the road, and I am conservative and live out in the wilderness surrounded by national forest. There it is in a nutshell.

  16. Good afternoon all;

    Well another interesting topic today I see.

    The human animal is an interesting creature, mostly made of habit and the ‘norm’. Look at the process of one’s day, I would venture to bet $$$ to Doughnuts that 90% of the folks here start and finish their day in a routine, not only the Day but week and months doing 90% the same thing over and over.

    Now regardless if you live in the Red or Green areas it’s the same. Those that live in the Red become nonresponsive to the 1000’s of people they pass each day, they don’t even know they are there, it’s like living life in a fog just trying to get through the day.

    Honestly the green is little different, we have our routines and do what’s necessary each day, after time of living in the Green we become complacent to the vastness around us, we no longer see the open spaces and just concentrate on the ‘job at hand’…. Do we not?

    So, what’s the difference? Aren’t we all trying to just make a difference in our own lives? Aren’t we all Red and Green trying to live happy and just want to be left alone? Well I’ll tell ya the difference since I’ve lived both sides of the coin.

    First of all, if I go outside and fart, I don’t get yelled at by a neighbor for contaminating their air. I can go outside and pee off my back porch and not get arrested for indecent exposure. I can yell at a deer eating my Garden and shoot a round of salt at that sucker to run his butt off and NOT get tossed in jail for ‘improper gunfire’. Try any of those in an apartment complex.

    Second, I don’t have to listen to sirens 24/7, or smell the smoke of the house 15 feet from me burning down. I can actually take a walk and NOT have the crowd carry me or stomp on me if I slip and fall. I don’t have to work in a 10X10 cubical for 9 hours a day with no windows and the AZZ-hole next to me coughing his fool head off.

    Oh course the list is Very LONG.

    I believe when living in the city people become desensitized to others and don’t see or even give a rat’s-azz about others. After a period of time this is what brings on the hate, the discontent of others, AND the wanting to control others to the point of where the cities are now.

    And as we all seem to believe the Cities are more attractive to the criminal mind and the ‘homeless’ this brings even more problems to resolve.

    And how do you resolve the problems of the cities? More and more control, more and more of the ‘Man’ telling what to do, the .gov grows and grows to the point they are in complete control of people’s lives, the media, their jobs, food, water, security, on-and-on.

    Hence there is the problem, the cities MUST have this control, whereas the Green folks reject this control and don’t really need it. Therefore the division in thinking, the lifestyle, all the way to the hate for each other; this will never NEVER end.

    Unfortunately the division is becoming more violent and destructive; I honestly see a very dark future between the Red and the Green as the larger and more aggressive cities move towards the green, the harder we will push back not wanting to lose our ‘space’.

    BUT, with all that said, this is all very minor compared to the ‘real’ problems and threats we as a nation faces. But it’s a good conversation.

    Again, just my 2¢ worth
    NRP

    1. NRP, agree with ya bro…

      You forgot, your advice is now 5 cents worth, unless however you’re having a sale 😉

        1. Ken

          Don’t say that – next time he will write 50,000 words in hopes of an extended contract. But in his defense, he occasionally has a valid comment and he is well grounded. 🙂

          1. @ hermit us, Ken & old lady

            Too late just started another article for Ken.

            No hints but I think y-all like it.

            NRP

    2. I like what you said about people in the red areas not caring about anyone but themselves. We always help each other out here. But we are always surprised when someone out here has company from a big city. They don’t seem to care about anyone but themselves and are so surprised when we go out of our way to help each other. The other thing I see are people so willing to let government pay their way so they can stay home and not do anything. I hear, oh medicaid will pay for that, as it there were a secret stash of $ out there just for them.

  17. A lot of what is being said here is the same for Canada. Rural areas more conservative & self sustaining, city areas more liberal & living day to day. I read some research a number of years ago that showed the more rats they put in an area the more deviant their behavior became. Does this sound familiar?

    1. Heard they release 100’s of cats (feral?) in that same city to help with the rats, oy!

  18. Interesting topic today…
    Ken you’re keeping us thinking and informed
    Kudos bro!

    I live in the yellow, wish it was more toward green, a bit more remote…
    but even still

    we can let nature take over the ground I “heart” dandelions
    we can have a rooster who crows at daybreak and no one cares
    our neighbors are cows and some nice neighbors
    we can burn stuff

    thankful-

    1. I do find some of this stuff fascinating (statistical-analytical associations) – however I don’t have the time to take on another new career (grin).

      1. I will say that much of what you have indicated here drives insurance costs as well. In my industry, we use population and demographic data to drive pricing on the insurance and reinsurance fronts. Actuarial data never lies!

  19. I think to some extent it has been and will continue to be this way. Going back to the Industrial Revolution, people migrated away from farms and toward cities in hope of finding higher paying jobs that were less physically demanding than farm work.

    As people moved into cities, and eventually into suburbs, more and more people ended up living in small pockets of densely populated areas. Urban dwellers rely on municipal services for their utilities, on paved roads or public transportation, and on delivery of food and consumer goods from outside their areas (to name just a few things). So, what they want from our govt and politicians is very different from what folks in rural areas want (or in most cases do not want) from our govt. Most city people want lots of govt “help” and most rural folks are all about less govt in their lives.

    I also think most city people are completely oblivious to how much control our govt has in their lives. Sure, some of us (particularly business owners) want less govt interference and control, but a lot of people are just not paying attention. AS NRP pointed out, people are just living their lives and going through their own routines.

    Under the previous administration, I believe we took a lot of BIG steps backward… more govt, more hand-outs, more racial tension, more of all the wrong things. Like most people who comment here regularly, I think this last election really highlighted those differences, to the point of anger, violence and bitterness spewing from a lot of people. I think the media plays this up big time, and paints “progressives” as being better, more compassionate people than the rest of us.

    I don’t know what it will take to bring people together again – an alien invasion, maybe? Seriously, though, I think it is extremely sad that those of us with conservative values (including Christianity) are being made out to be the bad guys, and that we have increasing smaller representation in our government. It think it only gets worse from here.

  20. Representation is motivated by phone calls. 10 calls about something in one day, and they’ll have a panic attack and think the world is ending. Well, not quite, but you get the idea.

    1. Unfortunately, not. The State of Jefferson movement sent thousands of letters a day and hundreds of telephone calls a day to our representatives who did nothing. On the other hand, our representatives could DO nothing, since the northern CA state is run by San Francisco and LA. 1 representative for 11 northern CA counties while LA has 14 representatives for 1 county. It does not work.

    2. That’s how our Republic is supposed to work. Unfortunately our elitist ‘leaders’ are not compelled to do ‘the work of the people’ any longer. Their job is to remain in their job and to take bribes from lobbyists.

      I used to call my Rep and Senators’ offices often, especially over the illegal immigration problems and ‘Obamacare’. None of my letters to my Rep, Senators, Governors, or any of our past Presidential appointees ever mattered. I wrote those letters, though. After Obama had been in office for 2 years, I realized I was just wasting my time. The efforts were pointless. We are no longer a representational Republic. I only received written replies from my previous Rep and one Senator. All those letters, all that time spent…

  21. I did not ever think it would come to this much division in the country. The only thing preventing outright chaos in all red cities are welfare programs like EBT. If disintegration continues like Chicago, collapse is inevitable with rioting like we have never seen before. Can the swamp keep the status quo going – I do not think so.

    With her upbringing close to socialist and communist societies, Rand was right in her portrayal of societal collapse from within. I’m with Oldhomesteader – going Galt now seems to be the only answer for many of us.

    1. I just moved my brother and his family downstate from the Chicago suburbs. I can now reat easy that if anything happens my family is back home where we all need to be.

      1. Ahhhh! More people from Chicongo invading the downstate! Seriously, if they have enough sense to leave that hell hole, then I guess we should welcome them.

  22. If people are smart………which for a large percentage is highly questionable, they will be learning how to take care of themselves. This includes food, water, shelter, heat and self protection. I have watched this progression unfold to some degree with my own eyes. People went from working their own land, in one way or another, farming, and actually making “stuff”. I saw their kids go to college and move to the big city. The stuff daddy and grandpa did, created, built, just withered away, or the land sold after they died.

    Most, if not all, of what we see is motivated by MONEY. The machine is too big, too complex and too corrupt. It cannot be “fixed”. At some point we are in for a rude awakening. Too many middle men and too many people ridin the bus and not paying a fare. The older I get the smarter my granny gets………..

  23. I have lived in big cities (Houston, Calgary) and most attitudes are the same there as they are in rural areas. The issue is that the downtrodden tend to be in greater numbers in the big cities and (sorry to say) most of them are sheep. They will follow whoever promises that they will be taken care of and I don’t mean they will be given jobs. They don’t want to work. Society is all about what you can do for me.

    When the SHTF most of them will die due to riots and food shortages.

  24. I dunno, but I’m thinking it might be wise to finally take the Ben Carson for President sticker off my car, just in case there’s an Angry Bird out there. That’ll make me more of a gray man.

  25. So…you see the handwriting on the wall.
    I’m curious. What plans have you made /are making with this knowledge?
    I’m in my eighth month of my plan and have worked out the kinks. It’s all logistics now and variables.
    Iit would be interesting to hear what folks are doing…

    1. Hey Bill

      Stored food and preps to Ken’s stage 3. Not going further because I do not have a mixed farm or a group to ensure complete and everlasting self-sufficiency. If the troubles go on for more than 3 years and I have defended my existence, I will try to work with whoever is left.

      Need more jars – many more.

        1. Oldhomesteader

          The only thing I am missing is a good Ham setup. If the crap hits the fan I will keep our heads down until either just bad guys are left or survivors like me – then I will attempt contact with Galt’s Gulch and try to arrange a new society. If only bad guys left in Idaho, then the whole country is lost and I will go down swinging.

      1. Hermit us,a 3year plan is good. I go through the possible scenario then decide the best course of action for our situation.I have spent a lot of time on this the last year.
        I plan my work and work my plan. It takes a lot of commitment to see it through.
        It’s interesting that we talk about plans when so many can’t see past what they are Having for dinner tonight…

  26. well its not all libaturds that live in cities we are die hard conservatives that are by no choice of your own are stuck in a major city if we had the money to move out of the city we would be gone TOMORROW so we are kinda stuck here for now

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